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What's the most powerful caliber the average adult can handle?

7K views 93 replies 38 participants last post by  Danoobie 
#1 ·
Assume a reasonable amount of firearms experience, a well-fitting stock, and proper technique, though no muzzle brakes. Chuck Hawks says the 270 Winchester is the maximum for most people, Terminal Ballistics Research says the 30-06, I'm sure there are other claims too.
 
#27 ·
I'll give one factor no one has brought up yet. The ca;iber\gauge\load you start with, and the layout\pklatform you start with.

Throw a new shooter behind an old Steven's 12 gauge single shot, loaded with 3 inch magnum slugs, in a 5 pound, solid plate rear, ill fitting stock, and you either have a shooter after that point that LOVES recoil, or is afraid of even a 7 pound rifle in .223 Remington.

i ain't saying i love bruising, and crushing injuries, but i enjoy shooting my GP100, 6 inch, half lug, stock rubber grips with the wood panels, single handed in a bull's eye posture, with 158 grain magnums. i can tolerate doing so with the 4 inch 686, and I pretty much always 2 hand the snub nose .38s I own, but I can still single hand them with 158 grain pills, weak hand. i just don
t enjoy it as much.

i also love shooting my friend's cut down H&R single shot 10 gauge, enough so that I am looking to buy one for myself.

Rifle wise, I love shooting the few .50 BMGs my friends own, even when i pay for my own ammo, prone or at a bench.Off hand, i don't even feel the recoil from my dad's 1988 produced Savage 110 in .270, or the sporterized 1903 Mark I, same with the P1917. And I love my .45-70s.

however, I AM NOT NORMAL, and I will be the first to admit it. most of the guiys I shoot with will fire a round or two from the NEF Handi-Rifle in .45-70, .405 grain pill, and unload it, then hand it back to me, and fold. More than one has done the same with the Guide gun. I love recoil, and I ain't talking about the magazine.

most of the men I have shot with, I'd say my grandfather's pre-64 Model 70 in .30-06, with 185 grain loads is right about it for true comfort, and the gas checked 220 grain lead elk loads I roll myself (Shot a coyote with one once. Quite the mess.) are the tap out point, from a bench, or off hand making little difference.

now, here's one that will get you. i find that the women I have shot with handle recoil better than the men. Could have something to do with the fact that about 2/3rds of them have been trough child birth, or it could be the whole demasculation of my gender over the last 30 years, but the girls handle the hotter loads better than most of the guy I know. may also be that my stocks, as I am only 5 foot 7, fit them better than they do the men I know, as most are around 6 feet even.

The first rifle, centerfire, that my wife shot was dad's 110, followed by the M70, and I have watched her sit at a bench, and feed slugs through her smoothbore, youth model M500 we set up as a DSG, for well over an hour with no anticipation, other than checking group size afterwards. Same with my daughtewr, with her Youth 870, and thre B Square mount on it.

Now, I do own a few that I just hate, despise even, due to the amount of recoil they have, main one that comes to mind is the Alaskan M4 Survival Derringer, which I have fired TWICE in 11 years. I will freely admit that, if I ran across the designer of said pistol, I would deliver a line drive kick, straight to his b@lls, for putting the .45-70 barrel on top of the .45 LC\.410 Barrel.

or maybe not, as he just might be a sadomasichist, and might even really enjoy shooting his creation.

I myself, and every other person that has shot it, even the handful that own a S&W .500, have never wanted to shoot it ever again, to the point that I would give the 155 Mm howitzer chain mentiond a try for the shoulder first, as it would likely hurt less.

now, I do not, under any circumstances, give anyone a hard time about being recoil sensitive, as some of them do have very solid reasons for being so, a few of them, it's a medical reason, like two of my friends who now have pacemakers, and are left handed\left eyed, that had to seel off their heavyweights, and one who has a calcium deficiency that could wind up breaking bones, or have carpa tunnel\ wrist, shoulder, or elbow issues.

Having been in A LOT of pain in my life, I get it, and fully understand, as I also understand dealing with physical limitations. I know what it feels like to be mocked or picked on over a disability or the after afects of an injury, so I DO NOT do it to others, instead trying to help them find what works best for them, to the point oif having traded off a few of my own personal firearms, to keep them active in shooting sports, and capable of SD.

(one of which was an old S&W 36 with a set of pachmayr grips, that I loved, for my LC9, as it recoiled softer with 125 grain JHPs, and 158 grain target loads, which it's new owner could handle after getting his hand caught between the tip of a folklift tine and a dumpster at work. he never had an issue before that with his LC9, but did after the incident, as it partially severed his primary, left, hand between the wrist and fingers. It healed, but it was never right after that, and he could handle that 36 right handed, or left handed, with no issues, so we went to Mayvilles, walked into the permit office, and paid $6 each, and handed them off in the parking lot.)
 
#28 ·
Mr. Kfox, i'll even throw in another factor too, the age at when someone is introduced to guns.

those like myself who started at a very early age, and starting with a 22 rifle and a 410 shotgun, then progressing into larger and heavier recoiling firearms. and many are like myself, having shot some mule stout kicking guns, but we enjoyed shooting so much and we were too young and stupid to be scared! i chunked on my butt more than once when i was a youngster! but i still went back and shot them again. by the time i was in my early teens, i was already shooting a 30-06 for deer hunting and target practice. and mine had a buttplate, not a recoil pad.

enter a person in their adult years, or middle age to shooting, and sometimes some preconceived ideas about guns or recoil, and it's a whole different learning experience than that of young boy, or girl who grew up around guns, shooting and hunting. in many ways, you have to treat them as if they were like a small child, and start them off with smaller and lighter recoiling guns to acquaint them with recoil in steps, so as not to bring in bad habits of flinching due to perceived conceptions about recoil. and once a person develops a flinch due to anticipation of recoil, that is a hard habit to break. it totally messes with accurate shot placement.

and those jerks who think it's funny to put some hard recoiling gun into the hands of a noob, or their wife or girlfriend, thinking it will be huge funny joke, should have their butts kicked. it's not funny in the least, and could be dangerous at the most. pure stupidity. it also creates a bad experience for the beginning shooter when they are the butt of such immature stunts. many of them probably shy away from guns altogether after such an experience, and who can blame them. again, just pure stupidity. :mad:
 
#29 ·
I agree with @dallas53. Felt recoil will be different for everyone. As $txhillbilly said, there are too many variables to determine that up front for a particular shooter. I think the question you may want to ask yourself is "what is the intended purpose of the firearm." There might be no need for a 300 Win Mag when perhaps a 6.5 Creedmoor or 308 Win will do the job.
 
#30 ·
They make buttplates other than metal??!!

Wait I think the one on my No. 5 Enfield is rubber but its worse than the metal ones!!

:p
I don't think anything will tame an Enfield #5. It is just plain nasty.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I grew up learning on a old Daisy Buck of my Fathers, transitioned into a single shot .22, then into a Winchester 1400 gas operated 12ga.
The first time Id ever been really rattled was by a old extra full choked Stevens long tom single shot 12ga Id bought, figuring to take it out squirrel hunting as in past was a booger shooting with a rifle, Id figured a shotgun would be a way better squirrel getter, up till now I just didnt have a chance to fire the thing, Id scrounged up some my Dad's old 12-gauge, 3-inch Magnum Remington BB Nitro Mag's and stoked that puppy up.
Seeing a squirrel in my naivete I sucked that old telephone pole of a shotgun in like I was making a long distance rifle shot, my snooter right behind my thumb and triggerd off what felt like a horse kick to my face and shoulder, Id dropped it, had a bloody nose and my shoulder hurt and had a goodly bruise.
What Did I realize?
#1 How you hold your weapon properly
#2 My choice of Ammunition
#3 The resilency of the recoil pad (fossilized)
#4 choke constriction (extra full)
#5 type of weapon stocking (straight grip)

What I did develope after firing it was a healthy flinch & deviated septum.

Not as bad as these fellas shooting the .577 T-Rex rifle.
From how that rifle flew from some of their hands I suspect the noob shooters were Not coached before firing, just so the sadistic buggers derivie pleasure from inflicting pain, suffering, or humiliation on others.
You note the laughing heard as this heavy recoiling rifle leaps out the hands of these poor saps.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-EVqT3XEzss&ved=0ahUKEwitiduw2cPWAhWnqVQKHVxwBMwQwqsBCB8wAA&usg=AFQjCNHkphmF7XpJpWV6q72DZmY3GGbnEA
 
#32 ·
I still say my 336 in 30-30 is the worst... My No. 5 has more of a upward recoil than into the shoulder.. Im aiming at the sky after every shot! :p

I can shoot only about a tube of "factory" bullets out of my 336 before Im done... I usually just shoot light trailboss loads from it.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Come to think of it, I had a Marlin 336A that recoiled pretty good, I just figured I was wimpy old guy.
I used to have a 30A that was decent recoil wise, it had a hosed bore that produced coffee can size patterns at 50 yards off a steady rest.
Then a pretty beat up Winchester 64 in 30-30 that though looked like it got drug along trenches every year of WW1 it was aamazeingly accurate and a pleasure to shoot, after foolishly trading it off in a fit of nostalgia years later I picked up another Marlin configured like the old beat up 64 winchester.
But more recoil and the accuracy just was not all that the winchester was.
So I settled for a Winchester 88 in 308.
Which seed to
 

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#34 ·
I'm pretty small ... .30-06 is about my comfort limit. I've fired a .45-70 musket, and I don't think I'd enjoy that caliber in a carbine.
 
#35 ·
So true about recoil pads. I can put multiple boxes of 12-ga. slugs through my Maverick 88 with no trouble at all, because even though it's a cheap shotgun it has a very soft recoil pad. I'm convinced that there is less felt recoil with slugs in the Maverick than I get from firing low-brass birdshot through my old Stevens double barrel, as the pad on the latter shotgun has long since hardened and is almost as hard as the stock itself.
 
#39 ·
I shot a 375 H & H mag ONCE.
the guy had a shooting bench.
with a 2x4 as a "stop" for your elbow.
the rifle was scoped and I NEVER shot a scoped rifle before.
I was looking through the scope and was wondering what the he11, this is like looking through a crooked sewer pipe.
I then anchored my elbow on the 2 x 4.
BOOM.
It shoved the lense out of my eyeglass frame, then my elbow went into the crazybone mode and my arm went numb. The nose pieces on my eyeglass frame drew BLOOD on my nose and I got a scope ringed eye.
The azzhole says to me "want to try it again"
I said "no thanks"
I was used to shooting my M1A with iron sights from all that good army training.
Now I know about eye relief, and DON'T ever anchor your elbow or other body part!!
My Mossberg 930SPX loaded with 1400 FPS slugs kicks pretty hard. Other then that, My target rifle in .308 with a hot 1000 yard load kicks pretty good but the rifle weight tames it some. My M1A kicks mildly as does the FN/FAL
I won't shoot a 44 mag with full house loads or something bigger. MY arthritic hands can't handle it. Some days when the gout flairs up, I can't even work the slide on my 1911 45 ACP
 
#40 ·
I consider this to be a meaningless question. There are too many variables for a meaningful answer.

For instance, there is a mathematical description of an 'average human'. Such a being is 'this' tall and weighs 'that' much and can lift 'X' pounds. However, such a description doesn't apply to many. Consider the 'average' male is typically - not always - larger than the 'average' female. The 'average' American is larger (typically) than the 'average' Mexican. The 'average' American is also typically smaller than the 'average' Watusi.

By the way, is 'larger' and 'smaller' based on weight or height?

Nor is there an average rifle. The '03 Springfield weighs (officially) eight point seven pounds. Some commercial rifles in .30-06 Springfield weigh less. Some more. One could argue the 'average' load is the M2 round, with 150 (give or take) grain weight and muzzle velocity (from some unspecified govmint rifle) of around 2750 fps. But then that cartridge is loaded with all sorts of projectiles from 130 to 220 grains with appropriate velocities.

On top of that, one notes the personality make up of various people. Brother C3 mentioned an intolerance to recoil on the part of the writer of the opinion piece. I have no personal knowledge, but have seen various people with that sort of 'sensitivity'.

I remember in the last year or so something about some left-wing 'reporter' whining about the "horrible recoil" and flame(?) generated by - of all things - a sporter version AR-15.

So the question is too involved and complicated to be answered simply.

I'd be willing to bet most adults (male or female), barring some excessive physical handicap, could tolerate a full size rifle chambered for caliber .22 long rifle. Ditto for .22 Hornet and .32-20 in a rifle.

I'd be willing to bet most adults (same qualifications) would have difficulty or aversion to firing more than one round in a session from a full sized rifle in .458 Winchester Magnum. One possibly might fire two or three rounds in a 'session' but most likely allowing others to share the experience in turn.

Then there is the second question of firing any rifle effectively. Even with proper training, hitting a mark at rifle distances - fifty to three hundred yards, perhaps - is more challenging with the degree of discomfort or pain involved. Shooting a rifle should be considered more than merely making a large noise downrange.
 
#41 ·
You make some good points, OMM. When I originally wrote "average adult" I wasn't really thinking in terms of body size or strength, as those characteristics are largely irrelevant to recoil tolerance. I was thinking more in terms of a moderate but not extensive amount of firearms experience.
As for a typical cartridge, my thoughts were mostly in terms of the more common loadings in each caliber, for example a 150 or 180 grain in 30-06, with standard bolt or lever action rifles excluding unusually light or heavy models.
 
#42 ·
You make some good points, OMM. When I originally wrote "average adult" I wasn't really thinking in terms of body size or strength, as those characteristics are largely irrelevant to recoil tolerance. I was thinking more in terms of a moderate but not extensive amount of firearms experience.
As for a typical cartridge, my thoughts were mostly in terms of the more common loadings in each caliber, for example a 150 or 180 grain in 30-06, with standard bolt or lever action rifles excluding unusually light or heavy models.
to be honest, just about everything from guns, to clothes, to cars and everything else between, relies upon the "average" person for fitment. problem is, no one has a fully defined set of parameters that properly define that standard, of what exactly is average.
 
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#45 ·
I was in my 30's when I bought my first SA 6" revolver, a Sauer & Son's, German made, that bugger had a nasty recoil, bad enough that after six rounds fired, I had to tighten the grip frame screws. It was the kind of weapon that could make or break a person of dealing with heavy recoil, but I continued buying larger caliber weapons and really began to like them in Ruger SA .45 LC and .44 mag and finally when I bought my .44 Redhawk recoil was no longer a problem, 3 1/2 pounds with a 7 1/2" barrel really tames the recoil. I've shot a lot of heavy recoil firearms and for the most part it doesn't bother me, however I learned real quick that if I don't hold a 12 ga. 870 tight enough to my shoulder, it's going to hurt and even under normal circumstances the 12 ga. shotgun is my upper limit to dealing with recoil.
 
#47 ·
There is really no reason that a guy could shoot all hunting calibers in reasonable amounts. If you have say a 338 mag and shoot it a dozen times to sight it in with a new scope and then shoot threes shots or so before every hunt to check zero, should be something any normal guy can do. Granted he might not care for the recoil but that does not mean he can't handle it.
I am just a small guy and I have shot almost everything. Maybe some people just have to man up a little.
 
#48 ·
I am just a small guy and I have shot almost everything. Maybe some people just have to man up a little.
Ha! My soon to be 66 year old, 5'2", 120lb wife's favorite big game rifle is her custom 7mm Rem Mag. And she shoots it very well without ever having to "man up.":D
The fact is, I'm kinda glad my wife doesn't "man up." She's been with me since 1971, and I kind of like her the way she is.:)
Seriously though, as OldManMontgomery wrote, "There are too many variables for a meaningful answer" when it comes to saying what's the most powerful caliber an "average" adult can handle. Not that that stops gunswriters for guns and shooting magazines from spewing such nonsense. I'd never even heard of that Chuck Hawks guy before the OP mentioned him. But from that, I take it Chuck Hawks is just a typical (or "average") gun writer who makes part of his living generalizing and grouping people.:rolleyes:
 
#50 ·
I think it has more to do with the stock and fitment than caliber within reason.
Yeppers, I think there's something to that too. Like I said, my wife's 7mm Rem Mag is a custom job. It's actually a Model 70 Winchester (with the pre-64 type action) and it has a 25" custom barrel that I don't remember who manufactured. It's stock of course, fits her perfectly because it was built for her. I don't shoot it because its stock is ridiculously short for me at 5'11" inches tall, with long arms.
I can make the same comparison though between an off the shelf .300 Win Mag I used to have and the custom .308 Norma Mag I now have. Ballistics, as well as "on-paper" recoil energies are identical between the two cartridges, yet that off the shelf .300 Win Mag I had kicked me so hard it made me dizzy, while I genuinely enjoy shooting my custom built .308 Norma Mag.:)
 
#51 ·
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#56 ·
I'd never even heard of that Chuck Hawks guy before the OP mentioned him. But from that, I take it Chuck Hawks is just a typical (or "average") gun writer who makes part of his living generalizing and grouping people.

Exactly! He issues blanket proclamations without recognizing that people aren't all the same. For instance, probably his most famous edict is that firearms which produce in excess of 15 foot pounds of recoil should be off-limits. Now, let's analyze that. Using that limit would disqualify, among much else, pretty much all 30 calibers except the 30-30 and maybe the very lightest 308 loads, the 270, the 7mm, almost all of the Weatherbys, and all 12-gauges. Yet vast numbers of shooters have used these "taboo" loads for generations just fine.
 
#58 ·
I'd never even heard of that Chuck Hawks guy before the OP mentioned him. But from that, I take it Chuck Hawks is just a typical (or "average") gun writer who makes part of his living generalizing and grouping people.

Exactly! He issues blanket proclamations without recognizing that people aren't all the same. For instance, probably his most famous edict is that firearms which produce in excess of 15 foot pounds of recoil should be off-limits. Now, let's analyze that. Using that limit would disqualify, among much else, pretty much all 30 calibers except the 30-30 and maybe the very lightest 308 loads, the 270, the 7mm, almost all of the Weatherbys, and all 12-gauges. Yet vast numbers of shooters have used these "taboo" loads for generations just fine.
May be publishing fake news. LOL
i think, many of us having read some of his articles have come to the conclusion that Chuck is a bit of a wimp when when it comes to recoil.

but even given that opinion of him, he still writes some pretty infomative articles.

and in all fairness, they are simply his opinions, whether we agree or disagree with them. i am sure that if any of us were writing similar articles, we might have an entirely different viewpoint from a different perspective.

and one thing i have noticed about firearms, is that every firearm is different. now i'm not exactly a recoil junky, but large bore magnum pistols don't usually bother me as long as they fit me well. i shoot several on regular basis and enjoy reloading for them. but the design of the grip and how well it fits my hand makes a huge difference in my ability to control recoil and whether it's painful. as much as a like the SAA Colt revolvers and those similar in the type of grip, those even in lighter recoiling rounds are just plain uncomfortable for me to shoot. even the 357 Magnum versions using 38 Spl. loads are at about my maximum tolerance in such pistols.

i have noticed that using the same ammo in different rifles, produces a different felt recoil. some of what i have read, is that how well the stock fits a person, and stock design play into this quite a bit. overall weight and type of action are huge factor in perceived felt recoil.
 
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#59 ·
700 Nitro Express
.70 cal, 1,000 grain RNSP @2,000 fps
factory load generates 8,900 ft/lbs muzzel energy.
This is not an old cartridge but a new one developed by Jim Bell and William Feldstein in 1988.
Fired from an 18 pound double rifle it generates 160 lbs. of recoil energy , ten times that of a 308 win. ,
Jim seems to think this is about as heavy recoiling a gun as a normal person could hunt with.
I'm going to agree, unless the gun is ported , muzzle braked etc. to offset recoil .
Gary
 
#60 ·
700 Nitro Express
.70 cal, 1,000 grain RNSP @2,000 fps
factory load generates 8,900 ft/lbs muzzel energy.
This is not an old cartridge but a new one developed by Jim Bell and William Feldstein in 1988.
Fired from an 18 pound double rifle it generates 160 lbs. of recoil energy , ten times that of a 308 win. ,
Jim seems to think this is about as heavy recoiling a gun as a normal person could hunt with.
I'm going to agree, unless the gun is ported , muzzle braked etc. to offset recoil .
Gary
 
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