Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Legal and Activism > Are you a supporter of the 2nd amendment, or do you support restrictions?

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Old 11-09-2012, 06:25 PM   #51
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California basically?
Aw geeze, I go make a good point and ya gotta get personal!
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:27 PM   #52
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Aw geeze, I go make a good point and ya gotta get personal!
At least, it doesn't sound like you are in the worst part of Kali. Enjoy the lovely weather.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:45 PM   #53
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At least, it doesn't sound like you are in the worst part of Kali. Enjoy the lovely weather.
Actually, I am. Or at least on the wild Western borderlands of the very worst part of CA. What do you know of Palo Alto? I am sitting on the city limits right now.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:03 PM   #54
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It's simple to support the 2nd Ammendment...

Get the House and Senate to repeal the Gun Control Acts of 1934, 1968, and 1986. Then, the President can sign off on them.

eldar

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Old 11-09-2012, 08:00 PM   #55
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This sounds good when you say fast considering we cannot even get them to solve the budget problem.


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Originally Posted by eldarbeast View Post
It's simple to support the 2nd Ammendment...

Get the House and Senate to repeal the Gun Control Acts of 1934, 1968, and 1986. Then, the President can sign off on them.

eldar
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:36 PM   #56
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'Bear Arms' means using weapons for self defense, or aggression, by one force on another. It means using weapons, any weapon, to fight, from arrows to missiles. It doesn't mean hunting and it doesn't even mean self defense on an individual basis.

Personally I believe hunting & self-defense was presumed. Like having a horse or a plow. It was a frontier environment.

The restrictions at the Federal level are unconstitutional. Not so the state and local restrictions. Those restrictions depend, I guess, on the individual state constitutions, and their citizens.

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Old 11-09-2012, 10:51 PM   #57
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@hawkguy,

Not meaning to nit pick your response, but the ATF has put out the rules and regulations that cover just about every type of weapon on the market. It list specifically what is needed in order to obtain those weapons legally.
nitpicking responses is what a debate is all about....

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It is too easy for the law abing citizen to obtain the weapon that they want LEGALLY. And all of us lawful folks follows those rules. In fact, we have no problem doing so.
true enough.

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The term "Arms" covers weapons in general. Firearms are just a sub class of "Arms". Our Founding Fathers had enough foresight to know that weapons would be improved upon has time went on, hence the term "Arms".
somewhat true. saying our founding fathers had the foresight to know what weapons would be like in the future might be stretching a bit. of course they wrote the laws to be open and changeable, but i seriously doubt they envisioned citizens using guns to kill dozens of people in seconds, or biological or nuclear weapons.

the line HAS to be drawn somewhere. but most importantly, imo firearms need to separated from those with a history of violence. i would support almost any restriction that is effective in keeping these people from legally obtaining firearms. as well as STIFF consequences for those who obtain or sell firearms illegally.

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The problem started when the "Bad Guys" chose not to follow the rules and the Court System chose not to enforce maximum penalties on the "Bad Guys". The problem is compounded by the elected idiots who choose not to educate themselves on the rules because the are too smart to be educated.
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hard to argue this....
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:14 PM   #58
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'Bear Arms' means using weapons for self defense, or aggression, by one force on another. It means using weapons, any weapon, to fight, from arrows to missiles. It doesn't mean hunting and it doesn't even mean self defense on an individual basis.

Personally I believe hunting & self-defense was presumed. Like having a horse or a plow. It was a frontier environment.

The restrictions at the Federal level are unconstitutional. Not so the state and local restrictions. Those restrictions depend, I guess, on the individual state constitutions, and their citizens.
i somewhat disagree. arms just means weapons. if someone wanted to get TRULY technical, and consider the 2A literally, then the gov could say "ok, as long as we allow muskets, the citizens are "armed."

i'm NOT saying this is what i believe, but i AM saying...if you interpret "infringed" literally and precisely, you must interpret "arms" precisely. arms simply means weapons, not any specific weapon. the constitution DOES NOT, as it reads, say we have rights to ANY specific weapon. it is open to interpretation.

i of course believe citizens have rights to modern weapons. but the line has to be drawn somewhere. a reasonable compromise would be the smartest position by far, vs an "all or nothing" approach.

the problem form my view is the anti-gun folks only want to pass PLAIN STUPID restrictions like banning semi autos or awb, and (some of) the pro-gun crowd thinks 2A means we should get nerve gas and explosives.

the smart ones know it ought to be somewhere in the middle of that.

i just wish the laws were was more focused and effective at keeping guns out of the hands of the violent, not the law abiding citizen.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:17 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by hawkguy View Post
nitpicking responses is what a debate is all about....



true enough.



somewhat true. saying our founding fathers had the foresight to know what weapons would be like in the future might be stretching a bit. of course they wrote the laws to be open and changeable, but i seriously doubt they envisioned citizens using guns to kill dozens of people in seconds, or biological or nuclear weapons.

the line HAS to be drawn somewhere. but most importantly, imo firearms need to separated from those with a history of violence. i would support almost any restriction that is effective in keeping these people from legally obtaining firearms. as well as STIFF consequences for those who obtain or sell firearms illegally.


i have to disagree with your statement, that they wrote the laws to be open and changeable. the 2nd admendment isn't a law and the founding fathers never meant for it to be interpretateed as being a law. it's a God-given right and they never menat for it to be open or changeable, period. that's just some people interpretation of the 2nd admendment. simply put as they menat it to be, "Shall Not Be Infringed" is what they meant, and is exactly how i read it. they may not have been able to foresee firearms technology, but they were definately intelligent enough to know that firearms would advance with time. so that's exactly why they wrote the 2nd admendment as short and sweet as it is. simplicity. IMO, you either support the 2nd admendment as it's written or you don't. there isn't any this part or that part or they menat this or that, either in or out. there is not middle ground when a person says they support the 2nd admendment. either you do, in it's entirerity, as it's written or you don't.

Edit: also the founding fathers in their infinite wisdom, saw fit to add the 2nd admendment as a way for the citizens to have power over the government, and not the other way around. they never envisioned a government of what we have today, and i fully believe that if they were to see what has become to be, they would frankly be appalled and ashamed of us for allowing such a travesty to occur. what they fought for and sacrificed to achieve, to become what it has, is franky IMO a total disgrace and slap in the face of all who have fought and died to defend the rights and freedoms of this country.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:39 PM   #60
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i somewhat disagree. arms just means weapons. . . . . .etc
Well yes, 'arms' does mean weapons, but Bear Arms or Bearing Arms, didn't/doesn't mean just carrying them around, or in the back of the buckboard (or pickup truck). Bearing Arms means having and using them Militarily (Militia-ly?) to shoot people. That's what the 2A is meant to protect, not just having them around.
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