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Old 12-19-2011, 11:28 PM   #41
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lol!...if you were in that position and your best and brightest gave you this info...wouldn't you think that was good enough? I suppose you could never make decisions based on, what is believed to be credible information. Sure, the CIA info was flawed (well, maybe not...maybe WMDs were carted to Syria) ....I guess the safe bet is to never make a decision or a stand and to never believe your best sources....what kind of decision maker would that be? Let's all do the Monday morning quarterbacking thing when it all goes to s**t
Ok, so lets look at this from another angle. Its 2003 and we all "know" Iraq has nuclear weapons. Why did we attack? They weren't capable of actually hitting the U.S. and only posed a real threat to Europe and Israel. I will revert to my "let Israel handle themselves without U.S. intervention" argument to suggest why the war was irrelevant to begin with.

This is the same exact thing that is going on with Iran. Even if they do have nuclear weapons, we would destabilize the country by attacking them unprovoked instead of allowing Israel to deal with it? What happens if we find out they don't have nuclear weapons like we did with Iraq?

The failure on the part of the Bush administration wasn't getting bad intel, it was refusing to admit they were wrong when it became so obvious that they were.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:52 PM   #42
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Add to that comment above that virtually all of the info we get about Iran come from our politicians, mainstream media, and UN groups and we trust none of these entities. It can be hard to reconsider what we take as common knowledge but we really should get into the habit.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:59 PM   #43
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I find it harder and harder to remain skeptical, without becoming completely cynical.
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:06 AM   #44
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Did you steal that from my FB page?...lol this is the best explanation I have seen and yet people are still blinded.
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:04 AM   #45
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I don't think IQ rates have much on the absolute dumbing down of America by what can only be a concerted and intentional effort to do just that.
Idiot crap on TV,indoctrination in public school and higher learning,and the general apathy of those who are at the mercy of the all time favorite tool of placation for a population - bread and circuses.

Our economy is in a shambles and you can watch the fun as people fist fight over cheap communist chinee made crap on "black Friday".
We've been at war with one damn thing or another for decades now,with the result being nothing less then the desecration and almost total obliteration of the Constitiuion and Bill of Rights to fight these "wars".
And yet all people care about is the next season of American Idiot.

and now we literally have the government claiming that inalienable rights are dictated by them and they can imprison beyond due process anyone they want for being a loosely termed "enemy of the state".......but.......

OOOhhhhssss is that Justin fagget a$$ Beiber on TV?

Seriously- most people don't even know this government was set up as a REPUBLIC and not a democracy........they teach "democracy" or mob rule in school....and when they talk about the Founders,its always "those elitist slave owning white dudes"......

Talk about states rights and how as parties to the compact -the Constitution- they are equally able to judge for themselves the lawfulness of the federal governments edict and your a "red neck confederate racist".

"........that the government created by this compact was not made the exclusive or final judge of the extent of the powers delegated to itself; since that would have made its discretion, and not the Constitution, the measure of its powers; but that, as in all other cases of compact among powers having no common judge, each party (Each state) has an equal right to judge for itself........"
-Thomas Jefferson,Kentucky Resolutions of 1798

And it goes on and on....until we are all oblivious to the fact that the great benevolent NATIONAL (not FEDERAL as it was intended to be) government thinks it is the savior of all.....and its REALLY the ENSLAVER of all......


"When all government, domestic and foreign, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another, and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated."
-Thomas Jefferson

Silverado-no I didn't swipe that from your facebook lol....I don't do FBIBook or CIAspace......I came across this on youtube.

Anyway-
If people think that those who support Ron Paul need a shrink,well allow me to retort-
They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over.....

So what is Newt Gingrich or Mitt Romney except the same damn neocon RINO bull**** that we had with King George II?

How can the 4 year term of Obama be described if it isnt described as nothing less then a continuation of Bush era policy?

What is so different about yet more big government,more politicians that think more government THEIR WAY will "solve our problems"?

Its insanity,thats what.

For at least 50 years,we've been watching government grow and we have the problems we do as the result of that.

So to fix that we prescribe the same old same old?

What bull****.

Its time that we actually had the government restrained to its lawfully limited form as it was intended to be by the Constitution.

Anything less is doing the same thing expecting a different result-

its insanity.

Yep.
But I'm the nutjob who needs help cause I want to see the only person in that phucking cesspool of liars,thieves,and crooks known as DC- the only guy who will bring us back to the Republic we were meant to be,take the highest office of the land.

So I'm "throwing away my vote" if i vote for Ron Paul and thats whats going to get Obutthat 4 more years?

Well let me ask you this-

Whats the difference between one big government Republican or Big Government Obama having the next 4 years in the Oval Office?

Whats really "changed" since this version (Obuttboy) of the Big Government party has been in power from the last one(King Georgie Porgie II)?

What will change if the status quo is allowed to continue?

Nada.Zip.Zero.Zilch.

We will continue our march into an oligarchical,socialist democratic police state where the mob has learned that stupidity is the new "cool" and that they can vote representatives into DC who will open the public coffers for them and give them "free ****" by taxing the hell out of those who produce and delivering it to those who vote.
We will continue to have nothing less then pure "democracy",pure mob rule.

But how long can that last?

History has the answer- and we're headed for doom.

"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."
-John Adams

Its time to bring back the Republic.

Its time to reject big government crooked a$$ political snake oil salesmen and douche bags.From BOTH "parties".

Its time for government to be bound by the Constitution and OBEY THE LAW.

And this starts with Ron Paul in the White House in 2012.
With more TRUE Constitutionalists and Libertarians taking seats from scum like John Boner and Harry Reid.

This STARTS with more people RECOGNIZING that the PRICE of LIBERTY is VIGILANCE ETERNAL.......and turning off their damn idiot boxes and reading for themselves the history they don't teach in public indoctrination......and DEMANDING their Republic back from those that want to bleed a democracy dry for their own selfish pleasures.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:00 AM   #46
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I don't think IQ rates have much on the absolute dumbing down of America by what can only be a concerted and intentional effort to do just that. . . (snip)......and DEMANDING their Republic back from those that want to bleed a democracy dry for their own selfish pleasures.
Flamboyantly put.

I have some real apprehension about a RP administration. One can drive a screw into wood with a screw driver or a sledge hammer. I fear RP would be more like the sledge hammer.

However I have NO doubt that continuing to elect Republicrats is, in fact, doing the same damm thing over and over. Id like to see some real change. If RP works, great, if not, then well know to go in the other direction. Either way we get off the treadmill. Im just hoping RP will use a power drill instead of the sledge hammer.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:05 AM   #47
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Josh, i think you pretty much covered it.

i grew up in the 40s and 50s. There was a time when US public schools were among the best in the world. Then along came the US Dep't of Education with its idiotic unfunded mandates. Many American history courses went away, geography went away, most of American government went away; to be replaced with touchy feely stuff. The school systems are top loaded with counselors and straphangers. i know several school teachers. They all say No Child Left Behind is a joke. One guy says its government mandated dumbing down.

i went to college at age 45. For the most part there were two kinds of students: Those who studied and made very good grades and the 2.0 bunch. The sorriest students of all were the jocks. Black students who excel are often shunned by others of their race. One day i told Cindy, a black 4.0 classmate, that she seemed to have few black friends. Her retort: "Correction Floyd, I have no black friends, I'm playing whiteys game."

Thought about becoming a school teacher when i got my masters. Could have gone directly into teaching; no teachers ed, no practice teaching, nothing else required. Looked at it carefully, decided i would hate it and kept on doing EOD/UXO stuff.

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Old 12-20-2011, 04:55 AM   #48
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Josh, i think you pretty much covered it.

i grew up in the 40s and 50s. There was a time when US public schools were among the best in the world. Then along came the US Dep't of Education with its idiotic unfunded mandates. Many American history courses went away, geography went away, most of American government went away; to be replaced with touchy feely stuff. The school systems are top loaded with counselors and straphangers. i know several school teachers. They all say No Child Left Behind is a joke. One guy says its government mandated dumbing down.

i went to college at age 45. For the most part there were two kinds of students: Those who studied and made very good grades and the 2.0 bunch. The sorriest students of all were the jocks. Black students who excel are often shunned by others of their race. One day i told Cindy, a black 4.0 classmate, that she seemed to have few black friends. Her retort: "Correction Floyd, I have no black friends, I'm playing whiteys game."

Thought about becoming a school teacher when i got my masters. Could have gone directly into teaching; no teachers ed, no practice teaching, nothing else required. Looked at it carefully, decided i would hate it and kept on doing EOD/UXO stuff.
I don't often say this, but God bless the state of Ohio! Finally making me proud! Its about time they did what the Federal Government wont do!

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Bill calls for Ohio schools to teach more history lessons

Ohio students could soon get a full dose of the documents that helped shape this state and the nation.

New requirements regarding what historical documents must be taught to Ohio students were among the bills that passed the Ohio House yesterday.

Also, House members unanimously passed a new public notification for sex offenders in nursing homes.

Legislators engaged in an extensive debate yesterday over a bill that would require students in grades 4-12 to be taught the original texts of the Declaration of Independence, Northwest Ordinance and the U.S. and state constitutions. Starting in high school, more social-studies time would be dedicated to American history and government classes, which would have to include study of the documents.

It also would require that, by July 1, 2014, at least 25 percent of questions on new end-of-course exams for American history and government relate to the founding documents. The State Board of Education would be ordered to develop the new standards by July 1, 2012.

“Would not one better understand social problems, economics, foreign affairs ... if they first had a grounding in the foundation of this country’s origins through the study of these founding documents?” said Rep. John Adams, R-Sidney, before the bill passed 62-31.

The bill, Adams said, was sparked by a February report from the Fordham Foundation that was critical of Ohio’s history-education standards. Children, Adams said, cannot be expected to defend the rights and freedoms that the founding fathers intended without an understanding of the documents.

But Democrats raised a number of concerns. Rep. John Patrick Carney, D-Columbus, questioned the cost at a time when schools are facing major budget cuts. Adams said there would not be additional cost because they are not adding hours of instruction, and are modifying tests that are already being prepared.

Others, including Rep. Debbie Phillips, D-Athens, said lawmakers were micro-managing classrooms.

“The bill seems so overreaching,” she said. “To get into this type of specificity of saying what percentage of what test is going to cover what material doesn’t seem, to me, to be our job.”

Rep. Ron Amstutz, R-Wooster, countered that while the bill was something he would normally have concerns about, “This is core curriculum, so I am able to support this. We really need to get focused on the things that brought our country to where it is today.”

Multiple Democrats also said they were troubled that the bill specified the teaching of “ original” documents, which they said could limit the full story of U.S. history. A Democratic amendment to change that to “historical” documents was defeated.

“By teaching the Constitution without teaching the whole truth, this is where we come into problems,” said Rep. Clayton Luckie, D-Dayton. “Three-fifths of a human being; women not able to vote. ... You teach it all. When you leave parts out, you let individuals put their own thoughts into that and twist why things happened in our history.”

But Amstutz said it was clear that the bill, under a change approved by the House, would allow for the teaching of amendments to the original Constitution.

“We can’t direct how each instructor is going to teach this material,” he said. “Come on, they are going to put it in context.”

The bill now goes to the Senate for agreement on the House changes.

In other action yesterday:

• The House voted 91-0 to fix a loophole in Ohio’s sex-offender notification law, in which residents, their families or employees of a nursing home are not notified when a registered sex offender moves into such a facility.

“This gap in the law places those living and working in long-term care facilities directly in harm’s way,” said Rep. Courtney Combs, R-Hamilton, pointing to a 2009 Dispatch investigation that found 110 nursing-home residents in Ohio were sex offenders.

House Bill 24 now goes to the Senate.

• The House gave final approval to a bill designating Feb. 20 as John Glenn Friendship 7 Day, in recognition of the 50th anniversary of his becoming the first American to orbit the Earth. The measure, which got an emergency clause, now returns to the Senate.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/12/14/billcalls-formore-history-lessons.html
The real question is why in the hell isn't it already being done?!
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:56 AM   #49
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Good on Ohio.
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:03 PM   #50
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50% of our population has always had below-average intelligence but we haven't always been a bunch of simpering, unprincipled, ignorant idiots.
lol!..you're right...I can deal with the regular idiots..it's them ignorant idiots that chap my a**.
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