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Wrongfully Arrested in Vancouver WA


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Old 07-21-2014, 04:52 PM   #71
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Surveillance still works, the result would have much calmer and a heck of lot less costly.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:19 PM   #72
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What surveillance? Following someone's steps? Overhead cameras everywhere? Then the voice from under the rock will complain about the Big Brother. Frankly, even for me it would be too much.

You want cops like toddlers, seen but not heard? You could sign up for the future colony on Mars.
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Old 07-21-2014, 07:57 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Mercator View Post
What surveillance? Following someone's steps? Overhead cameras everywhere? Then the voice from under the rock will complain about the Big Brother. Frankly, even for me it would be too much.

You want cops like toddlers, seen but not heard? You could sign up for the future colony on Mars.
Bring it up a few notches, we're not familiar with this low end dialogue. Please.
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Old 07-21-2014, 08:16 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by locutus View Post
Sometimes there is a very fine line between "reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause."

An LEO with any common sense will always take the side of caution and safety.
Truth is likely allot of them do side with caution and we will rarely experience it or hear about that. Cases like the one in this OP made headlines because they are considered extreme in one way or another. I sure hope it doesnt become something I see locally but were way too close to places down below us that are seeing more intrusion and more rigorous support of Andy's Safe act. That stuff starts flowing north over the Hudson and all hell is gonna break loose...
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Old 07-21-2014, 08:17 PM   #75
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im not directly refering to any specific incident since videos taken by the protagonist out to "make a point" seldom if ever tells the actual story. im referring to oc in general when refusal to cooperate with law enforcement is involved
I'd suggest watching it on post 1 and comparing it to the video account he gave a year ago right after the incident and before he or anyone else saw the actual video of the event.

IMHO, he was very cordial until the officer refused to tell him why he had been stopped and instead kept asking why he was engaged in a perfectly legal activity and continued to demand I.D.

At this point Mac finally tells him that without RAS, he is not required to show ID and that he is not answering any questions.

This is where the officers get rude, strew his ammo through the grass, and advise him that they will be violating his 4A rights.

They then shout conflicting commands about which direction he should go before charging up and arresting him for trespass while he was standing on a public sidewalk.

This type of LEO behavior happens every day in America to citizens not engaged in OC.

We should not accept 4A violations as normal business... especially when we have nothing to hide.
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Old 07-21-2014, 08:42 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
I agree and would not personally OC an AR in a location like this "which happens to be a 1/2 mile from my home"

The problem is that after being released from an illegal detention, he was arrested for trespass on a public sidewalk?

It's pretty clear to me that the only reason VPD did this was his assertion of his 4A rights.

They arrested him for "contempt of cop", plain and simple. That's the part I've got a problem with and why I'm supporting him.

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Contempt of cop is law enforcement jargon in the United States for behavior by citizens towards law enforcement officers that the officers perceive as disrespectful or insufficiently deferential to their authority. It is a play on words, and not an actual crime. The phrase is associated with arbitrary arrest and detention and is often discussed in connection to police misconduct such as use of excessive force or even police brutality as a reaction to disrespectful behavior rather than for any legitimate law enforcement purpose.

Arrests for contempt of cop may stem from a type of "occupational arrogance" when a police officer thinks he or she should not be challenged or questioned. From such officers' perspective, contempt of cop may involve perceived or actual challenges to their authority, including a lack of deference (such as disobeying instructions, or expressing interest in filing a complaint against the officer). Flight from the police is sometimes considered a variant of contempt of cop. Contempt of cop situations may be exacerbated if other officers witness the allegedly contemptuous behavior.

That being said, cops are people too. If you purposely make them angry they can and will find some small reason to arrest you just for the satisfaction of throwing you in cuffs and taking you to jail. Right, wrong or indifferent.
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Old 07-21-2014, 09:01 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by WNGMSTR View Post
Bring it up a few notches, we're not familiar with this low end dialogue. Please.
No problem WINGMSTR. Don't mention male body parts when you struggle to make a point. Behave yourself, and you'll be treated better than a lady.
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Old 07-21-2014, 09:36 PM   #78
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Not looking to argue, just being realistic.

If the police officers went up to this man and he was carrying nothing, just wanking along, and demanded ID, they would be way outside the box and violating his rights.

In the current scenario, they went overboard and really set him up, I grant that.

But lets take a scenario some would have liked to see.

He is walking in front of a building with a rifle. His car is parked there. Police roll up.

What are you doing ?
I am expressing my second amendment rights.
Do you have any id ?
I don't have to show you my id.
Where are you going ?
I don't have to tell you.
Okay, have a nice day.

The police drive off. The man now enters the building and begins shooting the people inside where he has been laid off from that company.

All of this later comes to light. What happens to the LEO's? Do you think it will all be just a case of "they did their job right ?". Hell no...those folks are going to get barbecued, skinned and spit out of a meat grinder.

In fact, it will most likely lead to new laws that WILL allow greater latitude on search and questions.

What no one seems to understand is that there is a utopian view of rights and the real world cases. Our friends the LEO's have no way of knowing if you are good old citizen exercising your rights or Joe Nutjob. Why would anyone want to make it difficult for them ?

Showing your id is a rational CHOICE. It is a choice, no one disputes that, but if we spend our lives making everyone else's life harder, public outcry will ensure you lose some of that ability.

The lion is laying passively in the cage, but if you poke him in the nose every time he yawns, that yawn may just turn into a bite.

Nuff said.
Have you seriously re read your post. So many things wrong I don't know where to start. Let's start with this, "Our friends the LEO's have no way of knowing if you are good old citizen exercising your rights or Joe Nutjob" This is true of everyone regardless of whether they have a gun or not but they don't stop everyone. Next we have this, "Showing your id is a rational CHOICE. It is a choice, no one disputes that, but if we spend our lives making everyone else's life harder, public outcry will ensure you lose some of that ability." First he was not making "everyone's" life harder, the police were making his life harder by violating his rights and falsely charging him with a crime. Second, "public outcry will ensure you lose some of that ability." REALLY.... we shouldn't cry foul when we are being violated. Third, and this is the really big one, "The lion is laying passively in the cage, but if you poke him in the nose every time he yawns, that yawn may just turn into a bite." You've got it completely backwards, we the people are the lion and they should stop poking us in the nose lest we bite them.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:17 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by CzarChasm View Post
The problem is that we have to go to Mars to find an environment where cops themselves follow the law.

I can handle their authoritarian, tough-guy demands that I answer their stupid questions when I'm doing nothing wrong, but if it's "utopian" to believe that my 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendment rights actually hold meaning for the cops as much, if not more, than they do for me, then who should go to Mars to live and who should stay here to keep cops honest seems rather obvious to me.
Most cops are tough guys, or like to act tough, or both. Many are bleepheads. In fairness so are many of us, we just can't play it out in the streets without a badge.

Jokes aside, consider the following. The Constitution is NOT the law book. It is a set of principles, or guidelines, upon which the REAL street laws are passed and enacted. The cops follow the LAW AS IT IS. Not as it ought to be, or as some Mercator guy would like it. If you think the law is unconstitutional, challenge the law, not the cops. If they are given the legal authority to check you out on a reasonable suspicion, they can and will.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:08 AM   #80
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this is done
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