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Old 01-07-2013, 04:30 PM   #51
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FWIW, in the US Army, weapons may include firearms, grenades, bayonets etc. You will call an M16 a rifle, piece, M16... or a weapon. It is MOST emphatically not a gun (go watch Full Metal jacket if you have never had an NCO correct you on this )

Guns are shotguns, machine guns, and cannon.

As far as a DD 214 being proof of competence with firearms- I spent time in one unit where the Commander and I were the only combat arms officers. I had 3 dozen senior officer instructors that were Judge Advocate General, General Staff, Quartermaster, etc.

Guess who would take them to the range for their annual familiarization fire? They did NOT have to qualify- just put 10 rds of 5.56 or 7 rounds of .45 in the general direction of the target without hurting anyone.

Always made sure to take my Kevlar pills those days.

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Old 01-07-2013, 04:35 PM   #52
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I lied! He was in the Air Force. Don't know why I said Army. He was discharged (honorable) in '99. He guarded nukes up at Malmstrom for six years, spent a year in Incerlik, and two at Ramstein. I think his first year he spent bouncing around. Whatever training he had as far as small arms obviously didn't take. I love him and am thankful of his service but am unable to enjoy any shooting sports together due to his absent mindedness around a "weapon".
Cut him some slack man...it was the Air Farce...

And hey, I bet he can punch the hell out a keyboard!

Remember, the biggest part of Air Force Training is how to keep your hands in your pockets...so they don't get dirty!

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Old 01-07-2013, 04:51 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
FWIW, in the US Army, weapons may include firearms, grenades, bayonets etc. You will call an M16 a rifle, piece, M16... or a weapon. It is MOST emphatically not a gun (go watch Full Metal jacket if you have never had an NCO correct you on this )

Guns are shotguns, machine guns, and cannon.

As far as a DD 214 being proof of competence with firearms- I spent time in one unit where the Commander and I were the only combat arms officers. I had 3 dozen senior officer instructors that were Judge Advocate General, General Staff, Quartermaster, etc.

Guess who would take them to the range for their annual familiarization fire? They did NOT have to qualify- just put 10 rds of 5.56 or 7 rounds of .45 in the general direction of the target without hurting anyone.

Always made sure to take my Kevlar pills those days.
Similar but a little different in the Navy. Anything with a caliber greater
than 3 inches was a gun.

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Cut him some slack man...it was the Air Farce...

And hey, I bet he can punch the hell out a keyboard!

Remember, the biggest part of Air Force Training is how to keep your hands in your pockets...so they don't get dirty!

Tack
Now that is funny...
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:00 PM   #54
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Similar but a little different in the Navy. Anything with a caliber greater
than 3 inches was a gun.


Now that is funny...
Inner Service rivalry is always a good thing...makes us all sharper...and there was no disrespect intended. We all had a job and none of you should feel any less proud simply because ALL of your jobs existed to support me!

...and C3 is correct, a DD214 does not equal competence...

Even us Grunts, who handled weapons on a daily basis, could still have the occasional ND. Witnessed 2 personally, fortunately they were both with blanks while conducting force on force training with MILES gear.

Tack
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:04 PM   #55
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Inner Service rivalry is always a good thing...makes us all sharper...and there was no disrespect intended. We all had a job and none of you should feel any less proud simply because ALL of your jobs existed to support me!

...and C3 is correct, a DD214 does not equal competence...

Even us Grunts, who handled weapons on a daily basis, could still have the occasional ND. Witnessed 2 personally, fortunately they were both with blanks while conducting force on force training with MILES gear.

Tack
Seen a couple NDs from grunts coming off of a convoy because they we so damn tired and not paying attention. I got in trouble once too for kicking a Marine in the head during a rapid fire because he thought it would be a good idea to get up and flag me (I was just lucky he had a kevlar on). Ahh the good ole days.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:28 PM   #56
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How does the new gun owner get any training if they don't have a gun? We have enough regulations now. Some gun shop owners and patrons think they are running a range. If I can't examine the gun without someone bitching about safety I don't trade there. Many gun shops have a 300 square foot showroom. If you point the gun anywhere but straight down you are pointing it at someone. That is not my problem. I am going to examine the gun thoroughly before I lay my cash down.

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Old 01-07-2013, 05:38 PM   #57
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How does the new gun owner get any training if they don't have a gun? We have enough regulations now. Some gun shop owners and patrons think they are running a range. If I can't examine the gun without someone bitching about safety I don't trade there. Many gun shops have a 300 square foot showroom. If you point the gun anywhere but straight down you are pointing it at someone. That is not my problem. I am going to examine the gun thoroughly before I lay my cash down.
Ummm, Up maybe? Or at least upwards- over people's heads. I have been to Cabelas and Bass Pro and sighted across the building in a totally safe manner. Now I wouldn't do that with a loaded gun mind you- but in a store setting after making sure the gun was safe and unloaded? Yes I have.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:59 PM   #58
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Ummm, Up maybe? Or at least upwards- over people's heads. I have been to Cabelas and Bass Pro and sighted across the building in a totally safe manner. Now I wouldn't do that with a loaded gun mind you- but in a store setting after making sure the gun was safe and unloaded? Yes I have.
Bingo...

This is also why every gun shop I've been to has several pieces of taxidermy on the walls...

No one minds a customer playing with the action, checking the sights..."in a safe direction"...or even dry firing to check the trigger pull..."though it is polite to ask permission before dry firing".

Just maintain muzzle control, don't flag the staff or other customers, and no one should getting upset...

PS...Viking taught ms all of this!

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Old 01-07-2013, 07:01 PM   #59
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No I would not . If that was the case then we should only allow people that have served in the military own firearms , but it's not that way . The Constitution say all men are created equally. If Jo blow wants to buy a firearm and is not trained and kills himself well to bad. We have just culled out the weak and stupid.

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Old 01-07-2013, 07:46 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Vikingdad

Yup. That they are. Sort of comical when both you and the guy at the store know that you a) know that gun intimately or b) learned all that before you bought the damned thing to begin with,

BUT, it does no harm, so I don't mind at all. If I were required to go through the whole half hour or whatever every time that would be a serious pain in the ass. Two minutes I can handle though.
Nope no harm at all and many of the times I've watched it happen its been a good thing. Generally brings forth other questions from people that aren't as experienced as others.
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