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-   -   Will gifting work? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/will-gifting-work-54920/)

2ndAmendmentFreedom 01-06-2012 09:48 PM

Will gifting work?
 
Hey everyone,
I am in that great half adult still a kid age range which is 18-20. Thankfully a little less than a year away from being a full adult BUT too long for me to wait to acquire my own handgun.
I live in Chicago Illinois, me and my dad have all the permits needed (FOID + Chicago Firearm Permit). The gun I want to get can only be found online and I don't want to drive to a gun show 3 hours away from home. Can I get my dad to buy the handgun online, get it from the FFL and then when comes the time for Chicago registration, put my name on it? It would be a real gift, I wouldn't pay a dime. There is no such thing as a registration with the State itself right?

The ATF says this:
Q: May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?

Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles generally may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting.

I am already over the juvenile age.

Also straight from the ATF 4473 instructions:
Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, you are
the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or
otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from
pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the
actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift
for a third party.

Seems to be pretty clear...

Cattledog 01-06-2012 10:26 PM

In most states gifting is fine, but your being under 21 would still prevent you from possessing a handgun. "possessing" could be taken to mean without your fathers supervision as its perfectly legal for him to teach you to shoot a handgun. I poured over this http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/ILSL.pdf and couldn't find anything on "gifting". Remember that ATF laws are broad federal regulations that defer to local laws... all the way down to city ordinance. It sounds like your in the clear technically but If you have any real doubts. call the local sheriffs dept. Hope that helps.

bkt 01-06-2012 10:46 PM

What Cattledog said. Bottom line is this: don't be impatient and score a felony conviction. Better to wait and make sure nothing could be interpreted as a straw purchase.

Forums aren't the best sources for legal advice. Contact an attorney in your area who specializes in local gun law and ask him/her/it about your idea.

shadamai 01-06-2012 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkt (Post 669473)
Forums aren't the best sources for legal advice. Contact an attorney in your area who specializes in local gun law and ask him/her/it about your idea.

Good advice. I don't know if anyone here is a lawyer; I am not.

As for the text you posted on gifting- I observed a woman in a local sporting goods store recently filling out purchasing paperwork and saying she was going to buy the rifle to give as a Christmas gift to her husband. The man behind the counter said he could only sell the gun to her if she was buying it for herself.

c3shooter 01-06-2012 11:43 PM

Not a lawyer- gun collector.

Under Federal law, it is NOT a straw man sale to purchase a firearm as a bona fide GIFT. My neighbor cannot give me money to buy a gun FOR him, but I can buy one and GIVE to him. See this training video from the BATFE. Learning Theater 4: Straw Purchase Attempt

However- to the original poster- CAN you do this in Illinois? Check with the Illinois State Police- but I do NOT think you can do this in Illinois. You would need a FOID if you are a resident of Illinois, and I do not think you can get one for a handgun when under 21- but agin, check with the State Police.

If you are NOT a resident of Illinois, and your Dad is, he cannot legally transfer a gun to you. Violates Federal law- 18 US Code 922. Transfer of ownership across a state line can only be done with FFL holders, except for inheriting guns.

2ndAmendmentFreedom 01-07-2012 12:33 AM

You don't need a FOID per weapon, it's just a permit that allows you to acquire firearms. We are both Illinois residents so no cross state kinda thing. I just see so many people who claim they were gifted handguns at the age of 18 it makes me wonder...

partdeux 01-07-2012 04:02 AM

I've talked to a MI 2A attorney about doing this with my own daughter. In MI, there is not a problem with it. Not straw man in the eyes of the ATF, and she's legal to own the firearm in MI. BUT, she can not purchase handgun ammo. I can purchase it for her... stupid laws!

PrimePorkchop 01-07-2012 04:20 AM

Contact a lawyer, im not a lawyer, so dont put your life in my hands...but Check this link out

it seems pretty open and shut, it sounds like as long as your dad signs off of you owning that handgun (provided you have a FOID) then you can, indeed, own it.


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