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Vikingdad 01-25-2013 07:31 PM

Wikipedia Correction
 
I was doing some research on Fast and Furious and found this paragraph:

Quote:

ATF "gunwalking" operations were, in part, a response to longstanding criticism of the bureau for focusing on relatively minor gun violations while failing to target high-level gun smuggling figures.[20] U.S. firearms laws currently govern the possession and transfer of firearms and provide penalties for the violation of such laws. “Gun trafficking”, although not defined by statute, essentially includes the movement or diversion of firearms from legal to illegal markets.[21]:Summary A 2009 GAO report on efforts to combat arms trafficking to Mexico notes that straw purchasing is not in itself illegal, although it is illegal to provide false information in connection with a purchase.[22]
It is my understanding that straw man purchases are indeed illegal, because in order to complete one the straw man must provide false information in connection with the purchase. This last sentence in red is terribly misleading. Doe you all agree?

dog2000tj 01-25-2013 07:37 PM

that would be news to me ... and just about almost any firearms purchaser :rolleyes:

danf_fl 01-25-2013 07:58 PM

The statement as it reads IS correct.
If the statement had "Summary A 2009 GAO report on efforts to combat arms trafficking to Mexico notes that straw purchasing of a firearm is not in itself illegal,..." then the information would be incorrect.

Example: If I use Mrs. A's money to purchase a tool kit for Mr. A, that is a legal "straw purchase". If I use Mrs. A's money to purchase ammo for Mr. A, that is a legal "straw purchase". If I use minor A's money to purchase alcohol for minor A, that is an illegal "straw purchase".

Link to GAO report: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09709.pdf

orangello 01-25-2013 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danf_fl (Post 1109950)
The statement as it reads IS correct.
If the statement had "Summary A 2009 GAO report on efforts to combat arms trafficking to Mexico notes that straw purchasing of a firearm is not in itself illegal,..." then the information would be incorrect.

Example: If I use Mrs. A's money to purchase a tool kit for Mr. A, that is a legal "straw purchase". If I use Mrs. A's money to purchase ammo for Mr. A, that is a legal "straw purchase". If I use minor A's money to purchase alcohol for minor A, that is an illegal "straw purchase".

Link to GAO report: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09709.pdf

Have you ever considered a career in individual income tax preparation or audit? :D

dog2000tj 01-25-2013 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danf_fl (Post 1109950)
The statement as it reads IS correct.
If the statement had "Summary A 2009 GAO report on efforts to combat arms trafficking to Mexico notes that straw purchasing of a firearm is not in itself illegal,..." then the information would be incorrect.

Example: If I use Mrs. A's money to purchase a tool kit for Mr. A, that is a legal "straw purchase". If I use Mrs. A's money to purchase ammo for Mr. A, that is a legal "straw purchase". If I use minor A's money to purchase alcohol for minor A, that is an illegal "straw purchase".

Link to GAO report: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09709.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangello (Post 1109959)
Have you ever considered a career in individual income tax preparation or audit? :D

Basically gello' just called you a nerd! :eek: ..... LOL :p :D

orangello 01-25-2013 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog2000tj (Post 1109982)
Basically gello' just called you a nerd! :eek: ..... LOL :p :D

Of course i should disclose that i do a good bit of individual income tax prep in addition to payroll tax prep. Previously, i was an tax auditor for the state (gaming, income, sales/use, etc.).

:D

Tackleberry1 01-25-2013 09:16 PM

I think the grey area in straw purchase gun laws revolves around the ability to prove intent.

Example...roughly 3 years ago I tripped across a NIB stainless steel CZ75B 9mm...and she was singing my name...so I bought her. My son who was at that time still in high school fell in love with that CZ and for the first time since he was 8 years old...he finally quit begging me to buy a GLOCK.

The CZ's ability to break his "wanna be" fan boy status was enough for me to gift him this pistol as a high school graduation present and on his 21st birthday coming up in April, that pistol will officially change hands.

Nothing about this transaction would be considered a straw purchase because I did not intend to sell or gift the gun when I bought it.

I believe the question on the form asks: are you buying this gun for your sole use? Or something of that nature, so my answer of "yes" on the day bought it was not a lie, and hence, not illegal.

Tack

JWagner 01-25-2013 09:16 PM

One interesting comment I saw about the 4473 is that filling out the form with bad info could be justified if the correct info would be self-incriminating and in violation of the fifth amendment. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

dog2000tj 01-25-2013 09:33 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by orangello (Post 1110053)
Of course i should disclose that i do a good bit of individual income tax prep in addition to payroll tax prep. Previously, i was an tax auditor for the state (gaming, income, sales/use, etc.).

:D

..... :p

Attachment 81706

danf_fl 01-25-2013 10:04 PM

Of course, if you read the 4473 carefully, block 11a does not have to be completed if you are picking up a "repaired" firearm for someone else. You skip directly to 11b.

So F&F was a situation that, should it come to push-and-shove, the questionable firearms were in for repair and picked up by little old ladies from Tiajuana.


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