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Old 05-04-2013, 05:21 PM   #51
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If you can't be trusted with a firearm, why the heck are we allowing you to be free in society. Dangerous people need to be locked down. BGCs don't stop criminals and only infringe on us LACs. Who knows how 4473s will be used in the future???

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Old 05-04-2013, 05:25 PM   #52
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There is a lot wrong with BG checks and the whole concept. It constitutes begging the gov't for permission to exercise a constitutional right. It creates a record that you bought a certain gun at a certain time and a certain place.
It increaes the cost of the gun for the dealer and the customer. It provides for rejection of the sale based on an erroneous answer to a misunderstood question. Along with that is potential for a prison sentence. And for some poor guy who went along with a bunch of "friends" in a joyride as a passenger in a neighbor's car when he was a teenager, but is now in his 50's and has never even so much as ran a stop sign since, it forever denies him his rights as a citizen. Also, for some people, who are undocumented habitual criminals who have been lucky enough to avoid being caught, the 4473 is useless.

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Old 05-04-2013, 05:31 PM   #53
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WF38, I'm simply curious, no offense intended; If you are against ANY BG check, what about the people who really shouldn't have guns? How are we to weed them out?

Personally, I think there should be a one time BG check. A thorough one. After which you get a card, like a driver's license, and you show it, and buy the gun on the spot, no further inquires made. There would have to be some mechanism to update it if needed, like if you committed an armed robbery, or something.....
I dont think they are legal but if were going to do them, they need to be accurate and those who fail them must be prosecuted otherwise its just a waste of time and money. If we are going to qualify folks for rights, it must be instant and painless otherwise that is "Fettering".

kryptar, Im not saying all or most, just too many and they have a very important job to do, they arent just selling burgers.
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Old 05-04-2013, 09:45 PM   #54
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At the risk of getting flamed further......and this is just MHO.......I do think we need something. My aforementioned idea is certainly not comprehensive. I am pretty sure the BGC is not preventing the former joyriding teenager, but if a guy has done time for armed robbery, murder, ect., and paid his debt and been released, do you not want to prevent him from buying firearms? I understand that he may get them anyway from non-legal sources...... What about people with mental issues? You can't lock them all up, but should they be able to buy guns?

Granted, the right to drive is not in the bill of rights, but it is similar......you can't just go drive a car, you have to pass standards. If you mis behave, that privilege is taken away. As it should be.

Now, maybe this all falls into the PC category: it makes people feel good to think that criminals can't walk into a store and legally buy a gun. What if ALL BGC was removed? If someone bought a gun, and killed somebody with it, could society as a whole live with that? Could we just say, it's the guy's fault, not the shop owner, salesman, gun industry or gun's fault? If so, yeah, get rid of the BGC. Just as a side note, how did this work out in the past? I wasn't there, but I assume that at some point there was no BGC. Apparently before 1934 anyone could order a full auto Tommy gun from Sears through the mail. How were things handled back then? What about Bonnie & Clyde's rampage in '34?

Personally, now that I've written this, I don't know how I feel. Part of me says yes, and part says no.

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Old 05-04-2013, 09:54 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by clr8ter View Post
WF38, I'm simply curious, no offense intended; If you are against ANY BG check, what about the people who really shouldn't have guns? How are we to weed them out?

Personally, I think there should be a one time BG check. A thorough one. After which you get a card, like a driver's license, and you show it, and buy the gun on the spot, no further inquires made. There would have to be some mechanism to update it if needed, like if you committed an armed robbery, or something.....
No different than a drivers license. The card itself wouldn't be proof it would just have a picture and number on it which when checked against a database that could be centrally updated would say if the person is not disapproved or disapproved.

Commit a felony and the 50 states databases could be input into this system and they would be mostly accurate. If perfection is demanded then you may as well forget it because we don't have anything that works every time for everyone and that includes credit cards, drivers licenses, voting cards, passports, concealed carry permits or ANYthing that is done on a large scale.

I agree with you that there should be some way to identify someone who is not allowed to buy a firearm, the alternative would be to remove those people from the population and that would mean denying other rights to people as well.
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Old 05-04-2013, 10:12 PM   #56
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Commit a felony and the 50 states databases could be input into this system and they would be mostly accurate. If perfection is demanded then you may as well forget it because we don't have anything that works every time for everyone and that includes credit cards, drivers licenses, voting cards, passports, concealed carry permits or ANYthing that is done on a large scale.
Agreed. As long as it works a large portion of the time. To date, I have not had a problem with any of the things you mentioned. I HAVE had a few problems with gift cards, though.

Maybe my problem with this issue is not so much the fact that there IS a BGC, rather than the govt. hanging it over our heads, and could easily mis-use it, or use it as a stepping stone to more restrictive things.
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Old 05-04-2013, 10:25 PM   #57
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Hey guys u know you can like change the info on that as an update right?

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Old 05-05-2013, 01:39 AM   #58
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Hmmm... Perhaps... But only if the cards were issued at birth to every US Citizen to avoid a registry. I mean a registry of "everyone" would be fairly useless.

But hold on... Let's think out ^^THIS^^ for a second. Don't we already have a specific card issue to each and every American upon birth? Yes, I'm fairly sure I read about this card somewhere? It comes with a 9 digit number that tracks each of us cradle to grave.

So how about we just use that! Tie any "prohibitive" convictions to the Social Security number and vwalla! We have a safe effective way to ensure criminals are not buying guns from FFL's.. but are forced to continue buying them on the black market where the stoke the need for more and more stolen guns.

To be extra safe and dissuade tampering we could forgo the cards altogether and just TATTOO the forearm of every newborn from this point forward!

And heck, why not? It'll please the sheep and we can all still
buy guns!

Tack

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No different than a drivers license. The card itself wouldn't be proof it would just have a picture and number on it which when checked against a database that could be centrally updated would say if the person is not disapproved or disapproved.

Commit a felony and the 50 states databases could be input into this system and they would be mostly accurate. If perfection is demanded then you may as well forget it because we don't have anything that works every time for everyone and that includes credit cards, drivers licenses, voting cards, passports, concealed carry permits or ANYthing that is done on a large scale.

I agree with you that there should be some way to identify someone who is not allowed to buy a firearm, the alternative would be to remove those people from the population and that would mean denying other rights to people as well.
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:59 AM   #59
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Hey guys u know you can like change the info on that as an update right?
What?

And sorry Tack, I'm not into tattoos....
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:17 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
Hmmm... Perhaps... But only if the cards were issued at birth to every US Citizen to avoid a registry. I mean a registry of "everyone" would be fairly useless.

But hold on... Let's think out ^^THIS^^ for a second. Don't we already have a specific card issue to each and every American upon birth? Yes, I'm fairly sure I read about this card somewhere? It comes with a 9 digit number that tracks each of us cradle to grave.

So how about we just use that! Tie any "prohibitive" convictions to the Social Security number and vwalla! We have a safe effective way to ensure criminals are not buying guns from FFL's.. but are forced to continue buying them on the black market where the stoke the need for more and more stolen guns.

To be extra safe and dissuade tampering we could forgo the cards altogether and just TATTOO the forearm of every newborn from this point forward!

And heck, why not? It'll please the sheep and we can all still
buy guns!

Tack
It won't be a tatto, it will be a chip of some sort. It will happen in my lifetime, I'm in my thirties.
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