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Old 01-11-2011, 08:36 PM   #1
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Default Why i support carrying guns

I was talking to my granddad who is a pastor and we were talking about owning and carrying guns. He is of the thought that God is all the protection a person needs and that anything that may happen to you, God allows it to happen so you shouldn't interfere with his plans.He also said that since I used to box and can bench press almost 400 pounds I shouldn't need a gun. Then he asked the question could I live with killing someone?

The quick answer to that is yes...yes I can. It may seem cold hearted, but when someone attacks me with the intent to do me injury or death, then they become an enemy of mine for which I have no feeling for. There was recently a story about a marine and his wife being attacked by about 20 teens outside of a Florida movie theater. One of the male teens punched the wife out cold. Now no one plans for these things to happen. Im sure this couple didnt leave the house that night planning to be jumped, but it happened. I carry because of incidents like that. If 20 teens or anyone tried to jump on me in a public place I have a right to be, I will use my weapon. But they're just kids you say? A 15 year old boy thats 6'2 180 pounds is not a kid just because he's the chronological age of 15. He can do just as much physical damage as someone 18+.

I carry because I feel strongly about the 2nd amendment and my God given right to self defense. Im of the mind that I refuse to take a beating or worse just because "I wouldn't want to hurt anybody". As far as me boxing is concerned, I'm not totally helpless without a gun, however, anyone can be overwhelmed by numbers, like the marine above, and especially so if those numbers are carrying knives or blunt objects. Thats how I feel.

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Old 01-11-2011, 09:01 PM   #2
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This tends to be a discussion ruled by emotions rather than logic- but sometime you might ask your Grandad- when Christ was instructing his disciples to prepare for a road trip, he directed them as he did in Luke 22:36.


Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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Old 01-11-2011, 09:27 PM   #3
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This tends to be a discussion ruled by emotions rather than logic- but sometime you might ask your Grandad- when Christ was instructing his disciples to prepare for a road trip, he directed them as he did in Luke 22:36.


Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Yes he did. Also, may persons throughout the bible were known to carry weapons. Abraham was called a friend of God but he was armed with many swords and spears.
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:32 PM   #4
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It's understandable what your granddad said. But the issue quickly becomes one of philosophy: do you take prudent steps to see to your well-being, as you would if you were a farmer and had to plant at a certain time or harvest at a certain time? Would you ignore your responsibilities and throw caution to the wind and say "The Lord will provide for me"? Or would you do what is necessary to get food?

What if the situation doesn't call for self-defense but the defense of another? Should you go unarmed because the lord will protect the innocent...or not? If you aren't armed and people die as a result, is that the will of the Lord? If you are armed and people don't die as a result, is that the will of the Lord? Probably, your granddad would answer "yes" to each question.

So with all things being equal, carry a gun.

And another thing...while it would be difficult for me, personally, to deal with taking someone else's life, I guarantee you it would be far MORE difficult to deal with NOT taking the life of an assailant if it resulted in someone innocent being killed.

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Old 01-11-2011, 10:37 PM   #5
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My quandary with the whole religious aspect of self-defense is this:

God will protect me. Ok I'll buy that. Now as to the manner of His protection:

Does he directly intervene with lightning bolts or does He make the means of protection available to me - if I'm perceptive enough to avail myself of it?

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Old 01-11-2011, 11:58 PM   #6
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Old story- man stranded by flood, turns away offers of rescue from the National Guard, Game Warden with boat, and, having reached roof of house, a Coast Guard helicopter- telling each rescuer "God will look after me." After the flood crested and swept him to his death, he wound up face to face with St. Peter at the Pearly Gates- and expressed his puzzlement- why did God not look after him? St. Peter checked his book, and with a puzzled look, said " Not sure what the problem is- we sent a Jeep, a boat, and a helicopter after you."

Translation- Put your faith in God, but row AWAY from the rocks.

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Old 01-12-2011, 01:36 AM   #7
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i put my faith in god in the afterlife. in this mortal realm god gave us john moses browning, and by his hand, god gave us the 1911 by which to defend ourselves through the trials of life. he gave us the constitution of the united states and the bible by which to guide our actions while in this realm and the intellect from which to choose right.

never in any of my readings of the bible have i ever gleamed a hint that the almighty expected us to go through life living at the whim of evil doers.

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Old 01-12-2011, 02:06 AM   #8
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Old story- man stranded by flood, turns away offers of rescue from the National Guard, Game Warden with boat, and, having reached roof of house, a Coast Guard helicopter- telling each rescuer "God will look after me." After the flood crested and swept him to his death, he wound up face to face with St. Peter at the Pearly Gates- and expressed his puzzlement- why did God not look after him? St. Peter checked his book, and with a puzzled look, said " Not sure what the problem is- we sent a Jeep, a boat, and a helicopter after you."

Translation- Put your faith in God, but row AWAY from the rocks.
This is a very, VERY good point. If you don't mind, I'm writing that one down.

As to a few things the pastor said:

So, you are tall and can bench 400 pounds. A 12 year old in a wheelchair and only one functioning arm with a .22 can still kill you. Being physically imposing doesn't mean crap.

The other thing about the "God's plan" thing that George Carlin has a spiel about (which I will paraphrase)

If God, who is Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent, has a plan, why do Christians pray?

Christians pray to do well at a job interview, pray that they will find their soul mate, pray to win the lottery, pray that their grandparents won't die of cancer, etc.

Now, when they pray, they are asking (directly or indirectly) for God's intercession in his own Plan.

So, if God has a Plan, and his Will be Done, why do we pray? If God's Plan was perfect and immutable, praying wouldn't change anything.

If God actually DOES answer prayers, doesn't it mean that God's plan isn't immutable and perfect?

(this then leads to a spiel about how praying to some actor has the same "desired outcome" as praying to God).
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:29 AM   #9
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Default Fourth Commandment

Damn. Its like the second amendment. No BS about its intention

"Thou shalt not kill."
-God
Well, that is a humdinger. Its pretty evident what that means, that disciples of god should show how His way is best through the practice of martyrdom when threatened with force, and that peace is the best route. Peace is the best route. I however am not a martyr, and will leave that to someone who has a different perspective than I. My personal philosophy is that all the writings about how these rulers and people of power in the past were sacred followers of god is wrong. They were not the spittin image of what He was looking for us to be here on earth. Case in point, look at Joshua. I'm not talking about taking over Israel, but just how he acquired his wife Bathsheba. Not the nicest guy...

Idk, I'm no expert. But I imagine I will react and repent or feel emotional later. Thats the nice thing about being catholic, go to confession and all sins are forgiven, handy thing in todays world isn't it?

IF YOU CARRY you should be able to drop hammer on any threat while you are carrying. No point in doing it if you aren't gonna follow through

Oh, and don't tear me apart on the biblical history, I don't mean to offend anyone, just my take.

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Old 01-12-2011, 02:43 AM   #10
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God may tend to his flock, or appoint someone to look after them.

The general belief as has been explained to me, is that a Pastor/Rabbi/Priest is the one who God appointed to look after the flock, guide them, provide them with the strength, the courage, the moral fortitude to "withstand" what is before them.

Now if we look at countries with vast genocide in the past 50 to 70 years, you will see a history of deaths in countries and villages that had religious figures who were the head of their local Church/Parish/Get Together/Town Meeting or general place of get together & common Religious/ Ideological / Philosophical thought sharing.

No one questioned that the person in charge was appointed by their Lord or Higher Power and when the time came, they looked to this leader to protect them. To herd the flock from the harm.

If you read this history, you can draw the conclusion that evil men do evil things to good people, and you can choose to deduce from that the person in charge of those respective flocks was not sent by God, or that God's will was to allow all those people to die horrible deaths at the hands of the truly evil.

I can't pass judgement on that. I know that IF I do hit the Gates and stand before an Ultimate Judge, the book on me will contain the Good and the Bad, and I don't know which will outweigh the other, though I would like to think I know the answer.

Having said that, this is what I KNOW is a fact for me personally.

There are wolves in the wild, they come in that 'guise as evil men, with bad intentions who will do the utmost harm with the slightest of provocation. The wolves will come for the sheep (those that choose to believe they are protected by God, or that the Police will protect them). Maybe not today, and maybe not in their lifetime, but possibly in the lifetime of their children.

Then there are what I deem "The Lineage". The Lineage has no known path, family tree, genetic make up, philosophical leaning, or really anything in common.

A father doesn't pass it to a son, or a mother to a daughter. The Lineage can skip an entire families' generation, or it can affect everyone under one roof.

Examples of a member of The Lineage can be found here at this forum. I could name them, but I would prefer they out themselves if they so choose.

Members of The Lineage share a common trait in that they truly believe in a skillset that they have & feel a responsibility because of it. They have developed and honed this skillset, with reading and practice and application and daily situational awareness questions that they ask themselves, usually with their own embarassment and humility about such an "absurd" idea.

"What if?". How crazy is that in this day and age? I'm a paranoid moron for thinking something like that might happen here.

Members of the Lineage like these people truly believe that they have a responsibility to look out for the sheep. To be there IF a wolf, or a set of wolves decides today is the day. They believe that if something were to happen, and they did not lift a hand to stop it, they could not live with themselves and the consequences of their inaction.

Back in the day they carried a sword. In Asia, they studied martial arts in secret when law prohibited weapons. Now? They have a permit and they have a weapon they carry just like everyone else long the line, this one just happens to be a modern firearm.

Make no mistake. They don't believe they were sent by God. At least I have yet to meet one who felt s/he was.

But I have a sneaky suspicion that if there is an Ultimate Judge at the end of the day, this character trait probably won't be in the negative category.

JD

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