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Old 07-29-2013, 03:07 PM   #41
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Well in my case it was a victimless crime that's got sure and I am a caretaker who was growing medicine for my cousin who was involved in a horrific bike accident and is disfigured as a result of it. I was we'll within my rights and would hAve fought it, but like I said I was forced into taking the deal. I've never been in trouble in my life and do own guns. I actually have an M4 still and was never told to return it or turn it into the local authorities.... As if I would. Looks like I'm gonna have to go about obtaining arms a different way or just wait until my case is sealed in a year

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Old 07-29-2013, 04:17 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by HandKAllDay
Well in my case it was a victimless crime that's got sure and I am a caretaker who was growing medicine for my cousin who was involved in a horrific bike accident and is disfigured as a result of it. I was we'll within my rights and would hAve fought it, but like I said I was forced into taking the deal. I've never been in trouble in my life and do own guns. I actually have an M4 still and was never told to return it or turn it into the local authorities.... As if I would. Looks like I'm gonna have to go about obtaining arms a different way or just wait until my case is sealed in a year
Wait, you were growing medical marijuana for your cousin and he had a biking accident and that's why you're in trouble?
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:19 PM   #43
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This thread has evolved form the opening OP. There are two questions that need to be answered to deal with this. One, Should the Prohibition of Marijuana be ended. Two, Should convicted Felons be allowed the full rights of citizenship after they have done their time.

It matters which you answer first because if you dont believe the Government has the right to ban substances like pot, you probably dont concur with the imprisonment of those who cultivate and sell it either. Vice crimes that make for felonies are a subject category I have a real problem with. Question, Why dont we sue the Hop Farmer when a DWI results in a death?
Banning a substance seems a bit stupid to me. I ca see saying you use this or that it will hurt you. But the people have a right to be a dumbass. WE are allowed to when to comes to drinking an smoking. They put warnings on the labels but it's not banned.

My problem with felons is in an earlier post. Rather the debt was paid or it was not. If not then don't release them. I can understands restrictions on parole and probation as they are stipulations to keep your freedom for a predetermined time and are part of the debt being paid for the crime. But once the debt is paid then I can't see where it has any merit to not allow the ex con to be a citizen.
If they are going to commit more felonies then they will pay for that when they commit the crime. But you can't punish people for something they may or may not do.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:28 PM   #44
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Well in my case it was a victimless crime that's got sure and I am a caretaker who was growing medicine for my cousin who was involved in a horrific bike accident and is disfigured as a result of it. I was we'll within my rights and would hAve fought it, but like I said I was forced into taking the deal. I've never been in trouble in my life and do own guns. I actually have an M4 still and was never told to return it or turn it into the local authorities.... As if I would. Looks like I'm gonna have to go about obtaining arms a different way or just wait until my case is sealed in a year
Probably NOT the wisest of choices to announce to the world that you still have 'arms and are planning on obtaining more in "nefarious" ways on an open, public forum....bobthefed has a tendency to monitor these happy little outposts...CLOSELY.

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Banning a substance seems a bit stupid to me. I ca see saying you use this or that it will hurt you. But the people have a right to be a dumbass. WE are allowed to when to comes to drinking an smoking. They put warnings on the labels but it's not banned.

My problem with felons is in an earlier post. Rather the debt was paid or it was not. If not then don't release them. I can understands restrictions on parole and probation as they are stipulations to keep your freedom for a predetermined time and are part of the debt being paid for the crime. But once the debt is paid then I can't see where it has any merit to not allow the ex con to be a citizen.
If they are going to commit more felonies then they will pay for that when they commit the crime. But you can't punish people for something they may or may not do.
Where i agree with this in general...i disagree in so much as it depends on the nature of the felony. If your crime is a violent crime and/or committed with a weapon...then NO, no 2A rights for you. But for more "soft" crimes (burglary, drug charges etc) i agree.
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:17 PM   #45
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Probably NOT the wisest of choices to announce to the world that you still have 'arms and are planning on obtaining more in "nefarious" ways on an open, public forum....bobthefed has a tendency to monitor these happy little outposts...CLOSELY.

Where i agree with this in general...i disagree in so much as it depends on the nature of the felony. If your crime is a violent crime and/or committed with a weapon...then NO, no 2A rights for you. But for more "soft" crimes (burglary, drug charges etc) i agree.
If they can't be trusted with their constitutional rights, they should not be out of their cage. If their debt has been paid, and you trust them enough to let them out, you cannot dictate what rights they have and don't have once they are free men. That is a complete contradiction to call them free yet they don't have certain rights.

What you still do not understand is that where we are today is the result of giving our anti-gun politicians the slightest bit of leniency with passing "common sense" gun laws. You give them an inch, they take a mile. You are either for the 2nd amendment and nothing but the 2nd amendment, or you are against it. There is no middle ground. Once you rule out one category of individuals, where does it stop? You set a precedent to allow them to push it and push it until the next thing you know, EVERYONE is having to fight for their 2nd amendment rights. The 2nd amendment does not say "except for those convicted of a violent crime". So if you allow them to make that exception, then why can't they say "except for those convicted of any crime"? And if they can make those exception, then why can't they say "this applies to only those individuals in law enforcement or the armed forces"?
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:33 PM   #46
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Well in my case it was a victimless crime that's got sure and I am a caretaker who was growing medicine for my cousin who was involved in a horrific bike accident and is disfigured as a result of it. I was we'll within my rights and would hAve fought it, but like I said I was forced into taking the deal. I've never been in trouble in my life and do own guns. I actually have an M4 still and was never told to return it or turn it into the local authorities.... As if I would. Looks like I'm gonna have to go about obtaining arms a different way or just wait until my case is sealed in a year
partner, you are fixing to head down a road you don't want to even venture down. you were convicted of a felony, and are still in possession of firearms and are looking for alternative means of obtaining more? you sir are an accident waiting to happen! and you think your case being sealed changes the status of your conviction? ummmm, how about wrong! the only thing that can change your disposition of the case is an attorney and a judge having the case expunged. without doing so, even if the case is sealed, doesn't overturn the felony conviction by any degree.

so my advice again, would be to seek the services of an very experianced attorney and let him advise you in any further actions. you think you were treated poorly before, then get caught on federal firearm charges and your bad days will be much worse, like a very hefty fine and quite possibly more felony charges that will put you in a prison cell for a long time.
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:40 PM   #47
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If he's a citizen then he's got the same rights...So...Yeah, I'm fine with hit. Restrictions on the 2A is not good law. Amend the Constitution to make your restrictions on the 2A or let it stand UN-INFRINGED.

How many times do I hear on these boards you don't like it go change it., Well..We are talking about a Constitutional amendment. I think that poi9nt works here as well or better than it does in other cases.

I agree, Rather the dept was paid or not. If not they do not and should not be allowed to be released. But if the debt is paid then they should be a citizen with the rights of other citizens. I can understand a restriction while on probation or parole. Because that is part of the debt payment. Outside of that then rock on cat daddy.
I agree except maybe in the case of a repeat violent offender
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Old 07-29-2013, 11:07 PM   #48
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i look at it this way, that until the judicial and correctional systems are overhauled and criminal actions are punished fairly and sternly, without corruption and under the table deals, then it will always be flawed and lacking.

too many plea bargains, because many prosecuters want a good conviction rate to make themselves look good for the voters. so the conviction rate IMO, has nothing to do with real justice or making the criminal pay for his behaviour, it's about numbers. then he does plea bargain from a 20 year sentence to say 10 years and everybody is happy, including the defendent, because he knows with good time, he'll be back on the streets in 2-3 years. okay where is there the justice for the citizens? there isn't. there never will be true justice for the victims.

then lets move on to when he shows up at the correctional facility. he gets a warm bed, three meals a day, free schooling and even college courses if he wants them, free medical, dental and optical care, library and tv privelages and many more luxuries. he can get a job and go to school and knock a little more time off his sentence as well. he gets out in 2-3 and resumes with his past activities with no fear of returning to the penal system, because it's cakewalk and nothing but a vacation for him. many even continue their criminal behaviour behind bars as well. hmmmm...... still doesn't seem like justice is being served again.

personally, i see our current judicial and correctional systems as slap in the face of LAC's and the victims the system is suppose to be punishing. my way, would be a man serves a full sentence with no time served for good time. a ten year sentence means he serves ten years and not a day less. he gets three meals a day and cot to sleep on and works from sun-up to sun-down doing hard manual labor. by the time he gets back to his cot at night, he will be so tired, he won't want to do anything other than go to sleep. make prison something to fear and a place he doesn't want to return, so he will learn that rehabilitation so he doesn't return is up to him and the choices he makes. when he's released then he placed on a probation period of say 1-2 years and if at the end of that time, he has become a LAC and a productive member of society again, then he should have all of his constitutional rights restored, even the right to buy and own firearms.

but i am a realist, and do fully realize that this will never happen, and that we might as well in a sense, just put a revolving door on the prisons, and a big sign on the courthouses that says, "Lets make a Deal today!"

well rant over with.

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Old 07-30-2013, 12:00 AM   #49
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partner, you are fixing to head down a road you don't want to even venture down. you were convicted of a felony, and are still in possession of firearms and are looking for alternative means of obtaining more? you sir are an accident waiting to happen! and you think your case being sealed changes the status of your conviction? ummmm, how about wrong! the only thing that can change your disposition of the case is an attorney and a judge having the case expunged. without doing so, even if the case is sealed, doesn't overturn the felony conviction by any degree.

so my advice again, would be to seek the services of an very experianced attorney and let him advise you in any further actions. you think you were treated poorly before, then get caught on federal firearm charges and your bad days will be much worse, like a very hefty fine and quite possibly more felony charges that will put you in a prison cell for a long time.
Tru-dat!

No sealing anything will make a bit of difference. Especially where a felony is concerned. So you will have a kick back on any NCIC because there is a federal law that was convicted on.

OP..Your best bet is to not say a thing about anything to anyone concerning buying or using guns until a time when you are cleared to own one. I say this because it can get you in a bunch of trouble. Find a lawyer and work all this out. Don't stop at sealing, stop when you have had ALL OF YOUR RIGHTS RESTORED. And then keep a letter stating as much with you when you are in possession of a weapon. Or you can be looking at some time in your local, state, or even federal cross bar hotel.

Remember that even if your state is/has given the green light to green fun stuff the feds have not. They have went as far as to say they will send federal LEO to deal with what they call state issues of illegal activity. A Bob Marley card means zero to these people. Until the feds blink on the MJ issue this is always going to be the case.

I do wish you luck and hope you can get it worked out. But it will be a hard road. Nothing short of some legal document stating you have all rights of a U.S. citizen that have been removed by previous legal issues.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:19 AM   #50
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i look at it this way, that until the judicial and correctional systems are overhauled and criminal actions are punished fairly and sternly, without corruption and under the table deals, then it will always be flawed and lacking.

too many plea bargains, because many prosecuters want a good conviction rate to make themselves look good for the voters. so the conviction rate IMO, has nothing to do with real justice or making the criminal pay for his behaviour, it's about numbers. then he does plea bargain from a 20 year sentence to say 10 years and everybody is happy, including the defendent, because he knows with good time, he'll be back on the streets in 2-3 years. okay where is there the justice for the citizens? there isn't. there never will be true justice for the victims.

then lets move on to when he shows up at the correctional facility. he gets a warm bed, three meals a day, free schooling and even college courses if he wants them, free medical, dental and optical care, library and tv privelages and many more luxuries. he can get a job and go to school and knock a little more time off his sentence as well. he gets out in 2-3 and resumes with his past activities with no fear of returning to the penal system, because it's cakewalk and nothing but a vacation for him. many even continue their criminal behaviour behind bars as well. hmmmm...... still doesn't seem like justice is being served again.

personally, i see our current judicial and correctional systems as slap in the face of LAC's and the victims the system is suppose to be punishing. my way, would be a man serves a full sentence with no time served for good time. a ten year sentence means he serves ten years and not a day less. he gets three meals a day and cot to sleep on and works from sun-up to sun-down doing hard manual labor. by the time he gets back to his cot at night, he will be so tired, he won't want to do anything other than go to sleep. make prison something to fear and a place he doesn't want to return, so he will learn that rehabilitation so he doesn't return is up to him and the choices he makes. when he's released then he placed on a probation period of say 1-2 years and if at the end of that time, he has become a LAC and a productive member of society again, then he should have all of his constitutional rights restored, even the right to buy and own firearms.

but i am a realist, and do fully realize that this will never happen, and that we might as well in a sense, just put a revolving door on the prisons, and a big sign on the courthouses that says, "Lets make a Deal today!"

well rant over with.
Now that I do agree with, theres to many ex cons that have no fear in going back. I know a guy now who's in his early 30s and getting ready to go back in for a felony dui. Has spent about 1\3 of his life being bars. Instead of paying for a lawyer or doing whatever it takes to stay free (stop doing dumb things) he intends to just do the time and resume life when he gets out. The sad thing is he has a 12 year old daughter and has spent more time in prison than free since she's been born.
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