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Old 07-26-2013, 12:31 PM   #21
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I'd focus on getting your money back from the LGS.

IMHO, if the guy read your 4473, he purposely took

your money, knowing full well you would be denied by the ATF,

and by doing so, further misguiding you into buying accessories.

If he didn't read your 4473(AFAIK, FFLs are supposed to "walk you

through it") he's a bit of a dip$h!+. Most FFLs around here, which I

have dealt with, carefully read the 4473, then refuse any sale in which

the form hasn't been filled out correctly. Yet this guy also stood there

and let you buy accessories? The LGS owners want a couple things,

assured repeat business from folks who are eligible, and to avoid

entanglements with the ATF over folks who should not be attempting

to purchase "arms", as you so aptly put it.

IANAL, and I didn't get to see if the FFL tried to warn you off, or

tell you this would not end well, but if your story is true to the

letter, it seems as if the guy taking your money at the gun store

intentionally screwed you.

It seems to me remarkably convenient this LGS owner "took a

vacation" (let me guess, till the return date on the receipt for

the accessories expired?)

Perhaps a good attorney will tell you a lawsuit, against the LGS,

for malfeasance, will be in order.

But fire the attorney who allowed you to go into the LGS and

attempt to purchase an arm and accessories with a MMC

and a Federal Record. Because he SUCKS.

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Old 07-26-2013, 02:32 PM   #22
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Get your money back.

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Old 07-26-2013, 02:44 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandKAllDay
This is my first post and let me start it off by saying I am not a uneducated loser by any means and I'm writing this to vent.....

15 days ago I went to a local gun dealer to purchase an "arm", not a "firearm" as described in 26 USC 5645(http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5845). I settled on a H&K P30 9mm and gladly paid the hefty price. The owner of the store then told me he was going on vacation and wouldn't submit my paperwork until he returned from over the pond.
In the mean time I purchased several accessories and 500 rounds of ammo.
Fast forward 2 weeks. This morning I went into the shop to check in with him and see how his vacation went and he delivered me the bad news.... FBI NCIS denied my request to purchase a pistol and gave no reason why. I have all the necessary documents to purchase and own an arm so I was confused as to why I was denied. I filed my appeal as soon as I received this news by logging onto the FBI website.

I believe I was denied based on the fact that I just plead nolo to a charge, a cultivation charge(I'm a MMC by the way). As part of my plea I had to pay fines and was told by my lawyer that if I didn't get in trouble for the next year that the case would be sealed. He also told me that because I took the nolo plea that I would not have to disclose any facts of the case to anyone when applying for work and was assured it would not count against me for purchasing an arm. The Department of Health didn't revoke my MMC license either as it was not a guilty plea.... Well it looks like its biting me in the ass now.

I follow all state laws and without getting into my case too much was the victim of illegal search and seizure after a forced entry(no warrant) by the US Marshalls. They backed me into a corner and pretty much forced me to take the plea upon fear of them seriously destroying someones life who I care about more than anyone in this world. They even went as far as sending letters to this persons place of employment and she was going to lose her job if I didn't take the deal. They knew they were going to lose the case in court which is why they resorted to such dirty tactics. They Blackmailed me and coerced me into taking the plea. Doesn't sound like justice or fair and unbiased to me now does it.

The foundation of our American Government, its purpose, form and structure are found in the Constitution of the United States. The Constitution, written in 1787, is the "supreme law of the land" because no law may be passed that contradicts its principles. No person or government is exempt from following it.

The Constitution establishes a federal democratic republic form of government. That is, we have an indivisible union of 50 sovereign States. It is a democracy because people govern themselves. It is representative because people choose elected officials by free and secret ballot. It is a republic because the Government derives its power from the people.

The purpose of our Federal Government, as found in the Preamble of the Constitution, is to "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity." In order to achieve this purpose the Founding Fathers established three main principles on which our Government is based:

Inherent rights: Rights that anyone living in America has;
Self Government: Government by the people; and
Separation of Powers: Branches of government with different powers.

Now I am in limbo, waiting on my appeal, and my $1000 dollars is tied up. Is there anything I can do to help my case? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I don't think I can be much help with your situation, but as per the question you asked in the title of this thread...they're in the White House toilet with Obama's **** stains on them after he used it to wipe his ass with, and I guarantee he'll be flushing them by the time 2016 rolls around.
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmj
I dont smoke or use drugs, I drink a few beers from time to time. But I have no issue with people using drugs if they so choose. Its a "victimless crime". The only one getting hurt is the one choosing to use the drug.
i wouldn't say it's a victimless crime, what about the people who love the ones doing the drugs or how often the druggies will steal to get their fix. Most people don't understand my thinking and I may be wrong but it's what I believe.

Edit: also since this is starting to get political so we should agree to disagree, move on and get back to the topic before it gets locked because of us.
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandKAllDay
This is my first post and let me start it off by saying I am not a uneducated loser by any means and I'm writing this to vent.....

15 days ago I went to a local gun dealer to purchase an "arm", not a "firearm" as described in 26 USC 5645(http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5845). I settled on a H&K P30 9mm and gladly paid the hefty price. The owner of the store then told me he was going on vacation and wouldn't submit my paperwork until he returned from over the pond.
In the mean time I purchased several accessories and 500 rounds of ammo.
Fast forward 2 weeks. This morning I went into the shop to check in with him and see how his vacation went and he delivered me the bad news.... FBI NCIS denied my request to purchase a pistol and gave no reason why. I have all the necessary documents to purchase and own an arm so I was confused as to why I was denied. I filed my appeal as soon as I received this news by logging onto the FBI website.

I believe I was denied based on the fact that I just plead nolo to a charge, a cultivation charge(I'm a MMC by the way). As part of my plea I had to pay fines and was told by my lawyer that if I didn't get in trouble for the next year that the case would be sealed. He also told me that because I took the nolo plea that I would not have to disclose any facts of the case to anyone when applying for work and was assured it would not count against me for purchasing an arm. The Department of Health didn't revoke my MMC license either as it was not a guilty plea.... Well it looks like its biting me in the ass now.

I follow all state laws and without getting into my case too much was the victim of illegal search and seizure after a forced entry(no warrant) by the US Marshalls. They backed me into a corner and pretty much forced me to take the plea upon fear of them seriously destroying someones life who I care about more than anyone in this world. They even went as far as sending letters to this persons place of employment and she was going to lose her job if I didn't take the deal. They knew they were going to lose the case in court which is why they resorted to such dirty tactics. They Blackmailed me and coerced me into taking the plea. Doesn't sound like justice or fair and unbiased to me now does it.

The foundation of our American Government, its purpose, form and structure are found in the Constitution of the United States. The Constitution, written in 1787, is the "supreme law of the land" because no law may be passed that contradicts its principles. No person or government is exempt from following it.

The Constitution establishes a federal democratic republic form of government. That is, we have an indivisible union of 50 sovereign States. It is a democracy because people govern themselves. It is representative because people choose elected officials by free and secret ballot. It is a republic because the Government derives its power from the people.

The purpose of our Federal Government, as found in the Preamble of the Constitution, is to "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity." In order to achieve this purpose the Founding Fathers established three main principles on which our Government is based:

Inherent rights: Rights that anyone living in America has;
Self Government: Government by the people; and
Separation of Powers: Branches of government with different powers.

Now I am in limbo, waiting on my appeal, and my $1000 dollars is tied up. Is there anything I can do to help my case? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Sounds unfortunate. Just so you know the search and seizure laws are complex; case law makes it an incredibly complicated topic and subtle changes are made yearly. I don't know your case but you don't not need a warrant in ALL cases. So just because they didn't have one doesn't mean it was illegal. The case would have been dismissed at the probable cause hearing if your fourth was violated(typically).

you may have had a terrible lawyer. You should definitely do your research and find a good one for both your firearms and the charges you got.

That being said sounds like you've been breaking federal law and they handle firearms so I'm gonna say your screwed long story short. Even if you disagree it's still the law unfortunately.
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Old 07-26-2013, 07:56 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j4454
Sounds unfortunate. Just so you know the search and seizure laws are complex; case law makes it an incredibly complicated topic and subtle changes are made yearly. I don't know your case but you don't not need a warrant in ALL cases. So just because they didn't have one doesn't mean it was illegal. The case would have been dismissed at the probable cause hearing if your fourth was violated(typically).

you may have had a terrible lawyer. You should definitely do your research and find a good one for both your firearms and the charges you got.

That being said sounds like you've been breaking federal law and they handle firearms so I'm gonna say your screwed long story short. Even if you disagree it's still the law unfortunately.
Which even then I think it's complete bull that all convicted felons can't legally buy a gun.
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Old 07-28-2013, 08:49 PM   #27
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The synonyms to 'infringe' are 'limit' and 'restrict'!
This is why I say 95 to 98% of ALL the 'gun' laws on the books, from local to federal, are a direct violation of Amendment # 2 and thus unconstitutional!!!!

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Old 07-28-2013, 10:21 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garadex View Post
i wouldn't say it's a victimless crime, what about the people who love the ones doing the drugs or how often the druggies will steal to get their fix. Most people don't understand my thinking and I may be wrong but it's what I believe.

Edit: also since this is starting to get political so we should agree to disagree, move on and get back to the topic before it gets locked because of us.
Without getting political. I have an example from my life. I happen to know a guy, a dear friend...hell, more like my brother that lost his mind to crack (hell all drugs) We did 2 interventions, spent countless time and $$ to pull him from the depths of addiction. After HE CHOSE to fall off the wagon after the second time (we had picked up a mobile home, got it livable. Got him a drivable car so he could get back and forth to the job we got him) we said ENOUGH. Then his mother came came and begged us to save him again...so we did. Well HE CHOSE to fall off that wagon again...then his mom died and it got worse. I now go out about once/ twice a year just to make sure hes still alive. But its still the same old thing. Its very sad to see a once promising (highly intelligent) individual reduced to such paltry exsistence..

The point being, i KNOW well the pain and anguish of seeing someone destroy themselves with drugs..but i also know (having learned the HARD way) there isnt 1 damn thing I can do to stop it. Therefore it is a victimless crime. I do see your point, but your right... i dont agree.

(now to go slightly political..only slightly. I think there are better ways to achieve happier outcomes than total prohibition and jail time..and a better use for the tax $$$)
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Last edited by fmj; 07-28-2013 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:43 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garadex View Post
i wouldn't say it's a victimless crime, what about the people who love the ones doing the drugs or how often the druggies will steal to get their fix. Most people don't understand my thinking and I may be wrong but it's what I believe.

Edit: also since this is starting to get political so we should agree to disagree, move on and get back to the topic before it gets locked because of us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmj View Post
Without getting political. I have an example from my life. I happen to know a guy, a dear friend...hell, more like my brother that lost his mind to crack (hell all drugs) We did 2 interventions, spent countless time and $$ to pull him from the depths of addiction. After HE CHOSE to fall off the wagon after the second time (we had picked up a mobile home, got it livable. Got him a drivable car so he could get back and forth to the job we got him) we said ENOUGH. Then his mother came came and begged us to save him again...so we did. Well HE CHOSE to fall off that wagon again...then his mom died and it got worse. I now go out about once/ twice a year just to make sure hes still alive. But its still the same old thing. Its very sad to see a once promising (highly intelligent) individual reduced to such paltry exsistence..

The point being, i KNOW well the pain and anguish of seeing someone destroy themselves with drugs..but i also know (having learned the HARD way) there isnt 1 damn thing I can do to stop it. Therefore it is a victimless crime. I do see your point, but your right... i dont agree.

(now to go slightly political..only slightly. I think there are better ways to achieve happier outcomes than total prohibition and jail time..and a better use for the tax $$$)
as it is now, in many ways drug use isn't a victimless crime. many rob, steal or even attack or assault others in order to feed their addiction. all because drug possession and usage of certain drugs are deemed illegal and restricted. now if personal consumption of certain drugs were made legal and taxed and controlled like alcohol and cigarettes, would all these problems cease to exist? honestly i don't know, but i feel IMO, many of these problems would be minimilized by a large degree. but that's strictly an opinion of mine and not based on any hard evidence or facts to support that opinion. if they were made legal for personal consumption, taxed ,regulated and controlled like alcohol and cigerettes, that many resoures used to combat them would be better utilized elsewhere, plus the tax revenue would be better put to use in other areas. thses again are nothing more than my thoughts an opinions.

FMJ, reminds me of the old saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. hopefully one day your friend will wake up and realize how he has been wasting his life. sadly i have seen many that never did.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRau
The synonyms to 'infringe' are 'limit' and 'restrict'!
This is why I say 95 to 98% of ALL the 'gun' laws on the books, from local to federal, are a direct violation of Amendment # 2 and thus unconstitutional!!!!
Try 100% and you're dead on.
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