What would happen if "they" banned the ar 15 rifles? - Page 6
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:12 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by chloeshooter View Post
as usual lots of big talk about fighting back against the (presumably) US Govt. there are a few people and a few ideals I am willing to die and kill for. owning an ar15 sure as heck ain't one of them. making my kids spend their life without their Dad, or worse getting THEM killed, for a rifle? no I can't honestly say it would be worth it. it would definitely stink to high heaven, and I would work my tail off to get the bums that pass that kind of legislation kicked out of office. but make a last stand at my house? over an ar15? that would be about the most irresponsible thing I ever did!
Chloe...

I respect your opinion as you are entitled to it... but it's not about the rifle... it's about the "principle" of liberty.

I will say that we are all lucky the boys at Concord Bridge did not share your opinion.

Tack
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:38 PM   #52
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Gentlemen,

I've read a lot of "tactical" advice here... and no offense falla's... but I shot snot out of my nose at a couple of them... Shooting down bombers and fighters with .50's and .419's... really?

I'm equally amused at those who believe the "rotten house of cards" that IS our Gooberment is somehow invincible because they have tanks, aircraft, ect...ect...

Any 2nd rebellion will not be formations of patriots marching on D.C. or meeting Federal troops in open fields.

Vietnam and more recently the Arab Spring have proven that even a poorly armed civilian insurgency will eventually topple any government.

There is no greater disparity of arms and manpower between us and our Government than existed between Libia's Ghadafi and his people... In fact, I'd say it's the opposite.

On top of that... American patriots would not need to gather in large numbers. We would not need to "take and hold" ground. Doing so would be suicide from air attack and it serves no purpose.

All American Patriots need to do is two very simple things.

1. Refuse Registration
2. Refuse Confiscation... with deadly force if necessary.

That's it, nothing more is required. We make up 1/3 of the population. Even if only 10% choose resistance were talking about a completely undetectable force 8 to 10 Million VS a standing uniformed police force of 1 million. Even if active duty military was engaged... and complied, you only adding another 1.3 million boots to the ground and less than 25% of those are trained trigger pullers.

So... stick to your guns... follow your principles... protect your neighbors/community, and if your forced to ACT remember...

Defense of Liberty is ALWAYS the right course of action regardless of the uniform worn by the oppressor.

Should any bloodshed come from this, it will not be the fault of the citizen defending his LIBERTY and his PROPERTY. It will be on the hands of politicians who were foolish enough to attempt such an affront to freedom and the LEO's who followed UNLAWFUL orders.

Tack
No, Tack, I meant to suggest that you put a hole through the engines of the fighters and bombers when they're on the ground with a heavy sniping rifle. That's the only way a bunch of rebels armed with rifles are gonna have a snowball's chance in hell against a F-22 or B-52. Replacement aircraft engines are hard to get and expensive. Aircraft waiting on engines are typically down for at least a week. A squadron will generally have spare avionics and sometimes a spare sensor system (RADAR/IR/EO), but spare engines are rarely available.

From what I've seen, our airfields are very lightly protected. From that standpoint, it is possible to infiltrate them. The attack would have to be a surprise, well rehearsed, and coordinated. That kind of thing simply won't happen without someone catching wind of it.

To suggest that it's possible to shoot down fixed wing jet aircraft with rifles is pure fantasy that only highly delusional people would believe. Even Stinger missiles are mostly military fantasy come to fruition to waste taxpayer money. You can shoot down helicopters with them but modern fixed wing tactical fighter are simply too fast and the engagement window is too small, not to mention that SOP is to fly right at the edge of the engagement envelope and drop precision guided bombs.

The same principle applies with armored vehicles. You can't kill the vehicle with a rifle, but you can easily destroy the radio antenna, electro-optical ports (thermal/night vision/visual), and shoot the crew if they aren't buttoned up. If you can get close enough, you can set a fire atop the engine intake.

Viet Nam only proved that the American people did not want to fight the Vietnamese.

As far as the Arab Spring is concerned, they're still fighting over there amongst themselves and last time I checked, the largest standing army over there lasted about a week against our military during both go-rounds. There's a difference between fighting a third world dictator and the commander in chief of the most powerful military force in the world. To think otherwise is foolish.

I agree that defense of liberty is always the right course of action, but liberty must be a principle for which the majority of the population are in agreement with and are willing to defend. I don't think that's the case anymore. I think lots of people in this country have no problem with a dictator as long as he's "their kind of dictator". I only see dictators and make no distinction regarding which political party hatched them.

Between having an AR-15 and fighting our government over the right to own a 6 pound chunk of finely machined steel, aluminum, and plastic, I guess I'll have to acquiesce to their demands if they want to confiscate it.

I have children and while principles seem nice, my first responsibility is to them. Principles don't much play into my decision making process regarding what to own and use to defend their right to live.

If the government passes a law you don't like, then elect officials who will repeal the law. Killing members of your own government because you want to own certain types of weapons isn't taking a principled stand, it's a pissing contest with someone who holds more water than an elephant. It may make perfect sense to everyone else on this forum, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

Even if it was possible to resist without being immediately killed, even if it was possible to remove the military from the equation, even if it were possible to "march on Washington". After you get rid of the dictator, then what? If anyone has been paying attention, the candidates for power in the Middle East and the Banana Republics after a revolution are ALL dictators. The last strong man standing generally isn't a benevolent and democratic leader of men.

Like I said before, use the ballot boxes before the ammunition boxes. When the ballot boxes no longer reflect the will of the people, then we can consider using the ammunition boxes, for whatever good that will do.
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:46 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Tackleberry1

Chloe...

I respect your opinion as you are entitled to it... but it's not about the rifle... it's about the "principle" of liberty.

I will say that we are all lucky the boys at Concord Bridge did not share your opinion.

Tack
Don't even go there Tack, this isn't the same thing and you know it.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:33 AM   #54
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I may be a little paranoid here but even at this stage I don't think discussing our country's defensive vulnerabilities is wise. Anyone (including America's biggest enemies) can watch our discussions and draw the conclusion that we're ripe for the plucking. It should be perfectly clear that any drastic actions we would take would only be reactionary in nature and any attack from outside will be quashed in short order, this should include anyone crossing our borders illegally. The last time this many foreign nationals crossed a border it was called an invasion, tantamount to a declaration of war.

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Old 03-29-2013, 11:35 AM   #55
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I checked, it isnt in the Charter of the US Government to fix anything they think is broken. By the time BS Laws are penned by republicrats and passed by the Pubah, the trains already left the station! Were talking about AR's, crooks cant wait until Plasma guns are cheap and available; we foolishly attempt to limit old technology, the new stuff is 10 times as potent and a 10K CNC or a few bottles of easily available Chemicals take their place overnight.

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Old 03-29-2013, 11:45 AM   #56
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Let me answer that question so nobody can say they weren't warned.

A small flight of Blackhawk helicopters from DHS or the military, under DHS control, would use mini guns and 20K-40K rounds of ammunition purchased with your tax money later, there wouldn't be any protesters marching up to the White House.
.
They wouldnt dare.
and if they did so much the better as a general upriging would be gauranteed.
So maybe even that wouldnt be a bad thing .....

ANd those helicopters, they need to be fueled.
And the men who fuel them have familes which are soft targets.

how many maintainers would show up for work, knowing they and their families are at risk if they participate in organized murder of the american people?
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:17 PM   #57
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Google Ruby Ridge incident for the details regarding Randy Weaver. David Koresh and the Branch Davidians will take you to several links regarding what happened at Waco. Keep in mind the Government had the media on their side too. In both cases, the victims were portrayed as bad guys, (just like we would be). Were Weaver and Koresh clean and pure as the wind-driven snow? No, they weren't. That said, they and the people around them didn't deserve what they got either.
Also, I disagree the Government would hold back anything, short of nukes, in the face of a major insurrection. MHO, but there it is.
Short of nukes. That is rich. If the gov did use nukes, who would tell everyone? The military? The media? We all need to grow up.

The old western movies where trackers followed trails in the ground? Can we follow trails?

If you follow trails, you find on the last day of the first bush war, something interesting happened in the sand. Dig, the truth is there.

September 11, 2001. Look at file images of the cars. Even up to a mile away, look at file images of the cars. The first thing you notice is the paint is rusted off the cars. Look close. Now find video of bomb tests around WWII. In the split second before the major shock wave that blows everything away, you see the wave that blows the paint off the cars, and instantly dusts them.

History is always written by the installed gov.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:28 PM   #58
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To win at cards, the smart player will lay down his cards and forfeit the pot sometimes knowing not every deal of the deck can be a winner. In doing so, the loosing hand, does not show his cards, so the value of the lost hand is not measured or known.

Our gov plays us like playing cards. They never show us what cards they are playing. They are so compartmentalized, even people in the military often times have no idea what is really going on.

We can not win a war on our soil, fighting the military we purchased with our own tax dollars. When the shtf, just hope the end is quick.

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Old 03-29-2013, 01:32 PM   #59
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I don't own an AR rifle, but I would defend to the death our rights to keep and bare arms.

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Old 03-29-2013, 01:37 PM   #60
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I am 56. Never needed anything. As far as history goes, I have lived a life of higher stature than 99% of the kings that have ever lived. That is good enough.

We as Americans, especially the after WWII Americans, have lived a life of luxury so far advanced, we have no idea how good we have had it. Cars, indoor plumbing, electricity, airplanes, personal doctors, computers, airconditioning, cell phones, and on and on and on.

I could die today, and be a thousand times richer than all the thousands of years of civilizations that came before me.

I am blessed beyond measure, and no act of tearany of my gov can take that away from me.

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