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Old 03-27-2013, 07:22 AM   #31
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If "they" banned the MSR there would be a massive market open up. Prohibition made a lot of very miscreant people very wealthy. New underground manufacture would be the order of the day.
We should all remember that the sten was simple enough to make in a bicycle shop by a bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys in ww2. Now look closely at our miscreant class and realize that we have over educated (on our dime) parolees tackling advanced chemistry to make meth. What exactly would stop the same mindset from tackling basic metal working and flooding the streets?

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Old 03-27-2013, 07:45 AM   #32
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Correct me if I am wrong, but most of the enlisted men follow an oath to leadership,. and the leaders follow an oath to the constitution. Correct?

So the grunts will do whatever the Obama chosen leaders tell them to do. If that is the case, where do we turn?
Bit of a scary thought there AR10, but here is something to think about.

How many of those NCOs would follow an unlawful order? If even half of the members of a platoon were MSR owners, I would place money of them showing up at a door, knocking on it, and not seeing the "elephant in the room". Something else to take into account, How many First SGTs will wait until they are off base, and shoot any officer who gives then an unlawful order? Every member of the military takes an oath to defend our country against all enemies, both forign and domestic.

Just some food for thought. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:16 AM   #33
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If they banned them, what would happen if a few thousand marched to the white house and demanded that the law is removed?
Let me answer that question so nobody can say they weren't warned.

A small flight of Blackhawk helicopters from DHS or the military, under DHS control, would use mini guns and 20K-40K rounds of ammunition purchased with your tax money later, there wouldn't be any protesters marching up to the White House.

I'm sorry, but irrespective of how many rounds of ammunition you can carry or how fancy your autoloader is, you don't have anything approaching the firepower that DHS and the military have. Lots of people here have scoffed at the idea of body armor, so I'm guessing they don't have anything that'll stop pop gun rounds, much less .50 caliber machine gun rounds.

Obama will crush anything that even smells like rebellion or opposition to his rule. Best to wait him out another 4 years and VOTE (and get all of your friends to vote) in the next election cycle. If he attempts to hold his office after his last 4 years are up, then you can start the banter about who will do what to whom with what weapons.

I'd rather go to war with Russia or China, or both at the same time, than with our military.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:02 AM   #34
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I'd rather go to war with Russia or China, or both at the same time, than with our military.
I hope and pray that day never comes. America will lose far too many of it's sons and daughters if it does. The price would be too much to bear.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:04 AM   #35
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If you want to know what any type of effective resistance to DHS and the military would look like, it would be daytime engagements from concealed and, preferably prepared positions with suppressed .50 and .416 Barrett M82/M107 rifles.

Your primary targets would be the tactical fighter and heavy bomber wings that have fighters and bombers with precision guided bombs and the aircraft carriers. Without air power, the fight becomes much easier (and still nearly impossible to win). I'm not sure how you're gonna reach the carriers, but if you can, then you need to disable the propulsion systems so they can't launch aircraft (good dumb luck with that, you'll need it).

Your secondary targets would be NSA headquarters, SAC & NORAD, and any other major C4I installations with sophisticated radio, satellite imaging, and signals intelligence gathering equipment. This is a secondary target because the military doesn't even need radio communications or intelligence to bomb or strafe a bunch of rebels with nothing more than hunting rifles.

Your tertiary targets are as follows (in no particular order):
Oil Refineries - The largest user of petroleum products in the US is the government

Armored Vehicles - M1 tanks and M2 APC's need to be disabled first. The only thing I can think of is fire to suffocate the engine and shooting the driver and/or commander.

Helicopter Gunships - The Apaches and Cobras are most dangerous and no hand-held rifle is gonna knock one out except making a lucky hit on the engine intake or exhaust. Hopefully you'll have captured some Stinger missiles by this point. They're pretty much useless against our fixed wing fighters, but the helicopters are slower and more vulnerable.

Logistics Centers - Forget about ammunition dumps and the like, go after the food sources. From experience, the one thing the military never has much of on-hand at any given time is food. It's hard to fight effectively while you're slowly starving to death.

Roadways in and around military bases - Despite the "air mobile" mantra crap, the military is pretty much road bound when it comes to transporting large numbers of men and heavy equipment. It takes weeks to months to build up forces in another country in preparation for a strike because our aviation assets for transport are old and unreliable.

You'll have to accomplish all that in a matter of a few days at most. Anything longer risks massive retaliation from assets stationed elsewhere in the world.

I just thought I'd indulge the "fight tha powa" fantasies for those who entertain such silly ideas. You'll need about 4 million armed and trained men. Expect about 50%-60% casualties with between 35%-45% resulting in death. No hospital or first aid facility will treat your men, so injuries that would have been survivable with proper medical care will likely result in death. You won't have time to treat wounded men, anyway, as you'll be too busy trying to stay alive and take out all of your targets in that magic time frame of three days.

It's possible to do, but it will be incredibly bloody and you'll have a damn hard time disabling the ships. Apart from the tactical fighter and heavy bombardment wings, that's where the bulk of the firepower is. Don't forget that even if you somehow manage to take out all of the CONUS targets, the overseas assets are not insignificant and will have to be dealt with as they arrive.

Let's all dance a jig wearing our tin foil hats while we're at it.

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Old 03-27-2013, 09:44 AM   #36
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Don't forget about intelligence. Hard targets are hard for good reason. Soft targets are soft for good reason.

Everyone, almost, has a family or loved ones. Soft targets are soft targets. I think everyone here has a "soft spot".

I know I'll catch flak, but let's face it. What rules really apply when you are in the "fight for your life/freedom/blood line"?

NONE

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Old 03-27-2013, 10:32 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by AR10 View Post

Correct me if I am wrong, but most of the enlisted men follow an oath to leadership,. and the leaders follow an oath to the constitution. Correct?

So the grunts will do whatever the Obama chosen leaders tell them to do. If that is the case, where do we turn?
No, not at all. I was enlisted and although we do swear to follow the orders of those appointed over us, ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT we swear an oath to the Constitution. Not to mention the line about protecting the US from "enemies both foreign and domestic."
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:42 AM   #38
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Come and get them

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Old 03-27-2013, 11:31 AM   #39
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I just thought I'd indulge the "fight tha powa" fantasies for those who entertain such silly ideas.
It's possible to do, but it will be incredibly bloody
+1 kbd. The other factor I doubt many have considered is collateral damage. Are you prepared to lose everything? All you own including your family? For a principle? Because that's what'll happen if the S really does HTF. Anyone here old enough to remember Randy Weaver and/or the Branch Davidians knows what I'm talking about. The Government didn't hesitate and neither did those who carried out their orders. The idea of the Military changing sides and joining the rebellion is a dream. Unless you've been in combat, you have no idea what you're in for.
What would I do? I believe in the 2nd Amendment and the rest of the Constitution, but at my age, the clock's running out. My kids are grown and on their own all over the map. I dig my heels in, it'll just be me.
Standing up in the best Minuteman tradition is a noble thought, till the shooting starts. Think about that when you tuck your kids in tonight.
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:15 PM   #40
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+1 kbd. The other factor I doubt many have considered is collateral damage. Are you prepared to lose everything? All you own including your family? For a principle? Because that's what'll happen if the S really does HTF. Anyone here old enough to remember Randy Weaver and/or the Branch Davidians knows what I'm talking about. The Government didn't hesitate and neither did those who carried out their orders. The idea of the Military changing sides and joining the rebellion is a dream. Unless you've been in combat, you have no idea what you're in for.
What would I do? I believe in the 2nd Amendment and the rest of the Constitution, but at my age, the clock's running out. My kids are grown and on their own all over the map. I dig my heels in, it'll just be me.
Standing up in the best Minuteman tradition is a noble thought, till the shooting starts. Think about that when you tuck your kids in tonight.
So you would rather have us turn in our firearms and call it quits?
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