What is ‘eminent’ danger?
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:54 PM   #1
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Default What is ‘eminent’ danger?

Suppose someone is pointing a gun at you and says you’ll be fine as long as you do what they want (give me your bag, wallet, ring, car, etc.). Is that eminent danger? Are you justified in shooting them?

What if they are not pointing their gun at you, but still threaten to shoot you if you don’t do what they want (lie down on the floor, open the safe, etc.).

What if this happens in your house?

If your life is not in danger as long you do what they want, does that justify your killing them?

How do you know they would not to kill you even if you do what they want? If you know someone by their actions, and their actions are that they are attempting to rob/mug/rape you, my feeling is that they are less than trustworthy. But that’s just my feeling, not the law.

Does armed coercion count as eminent danger? Does armed coercion justify killing someone?

Basically, "He said he would hurt me if I didn't do X, so I killed him." get you off the hook? Is it right?

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Old 06-30-2011, 09:02 PM   #2
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Imminent danger can mean different things in different contexts but in regards to self defense it is usually interpreted to mean an immediate danger that is present and that you have no alternative other than to react to in self-defense. Certain states have recenty passed "no retreat" provisions to their Castle Doctrine laws that might expand that definition.

In short...if you can run away, do it...if you are cornered with no chance of escape, draw and fire.

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Old 06-30-2011, 09:03 PM   #3
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Might be tough to get the drop on somebody who already has their pistol pointed at you. Unopposed , i think i could convince a jury i was in fear of immediate termination.

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Old 06-30-2011, 09:21 PM   #4
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its a put on...its a put on.....


oops, my bad thats an eminence front, sorry

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Old 06-30-2011, 09:57 PM   #5
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I edited my last line. Presume there is no escape.

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Old 06-30-2011, 10:13 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Vincine View Post
I edited my last line. Presume there is no escape.
Quote:
Basically, "He said he would hurt me if I didn't do X, so I killed him." get you off the hook? Is it right?
I would avoid that language at all costs. You defended yourself against a threat from which you had no other alternative course of action...if the attacker died in the process that was a consequence of his actions, not yours.

Not qualified to give legal advice here but just get used to the fact that should you use a gun in self defense, the burden of justification will be yours. Any statement that implies intent to kill over self preservation will be used against you.

I believe that there are a few stickies posted in the forums about what to do before you strap on your EDC...a good primer to read.
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincine View Post
Basically, "He said he would hurt me if I didn't do X, so I killed him." get you off the hook? Is it right?
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Originally Posted by Jpyle View Post
I would avoid that language at all costs.
Yeah, that didn't come out right. It may be what I meant, but not how I meant it. I just couldn't figure out how to say it.

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Originally Posted by Jpyle View Post
I believe that there are a few stickies posted in the forums about what to do before you strap on your EDC...a good primer to read.
I'll go look again. (EDC?)
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:23 PM   #8
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To attempt to give a cogent answer to what I THINK you are asking (have my diploma from Madame Zelda's Psychic School)- and not legal advice-

When you have the present apparent ability to do me harm, and have placed me in fear of grievous bodily harm, you have just justified whatever I do to you to end that threat. Including forcing you headfirst into the Cuisinart, and hitting the "Liquefy" button.

You have what appears to be a firearm in your hand, and have made a threatening gesture, statement, or inarticulate grunt- I know of no circumstance where I am forced to rely on the future good will of someone that is attacking me. As in "Do what I say and I will not hurt you." That person has already impeached their credibility. Felons are not noted for veracity.

Now, we can spend some time playing "Yes....but what if....", however, that involves several beers, and you are buying the first round. The basic principle is that one has a right of self preservation. There is a legal concept known as "Greater Harm". It is illegal for me to break the window out of your car, BUT- your car is on fire, doors locked, baby in back seat- there is greater harm if I do not break the window, remove baby. Similar principle to self preservation- no rational person could require another to voluntarily give up their life.

HOWEVER- and that is the biggest word in the English dictionary- If you shoot- or shoot at anyone, for any reason- your life is GOING to change in myriad ways from that moment forward. Some of them legal. Thing to remember is- it could mean that, going forward, you HAVE a life beyond that point in time. That trumps all else.

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Old 07-01-2011, 12:08 AM   #9
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So if they have the ability to harm me, and have stated or otherwise made me believe that they may actually harm me, even if they aren’t aiming the gun or swinging the bat at me at the time, I am in eminent danger because of their potential to harm me, and can defend against it.

I washed out at Madame Zelda's . Which is why I have to ask the question. (But I suppose you knew that.)

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Old 07-01-2011, 12:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincine View Post
Suppose someone is pointing a gun at you and says you’ll be fine as long as you do what they want (give me your bag, wallet, ring, car, etc.). Is that eminent danger? Are you justified in shooting them?

you are in eminant danger because a good portion of the time they shoot stab or bludgeon you anyway. in self defensive handgun/rifle/shotgun you dont shoot to kill you shoot until they stop threatening your life

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What if they are not pointing their gun at you, but still threaten to shoot you if you don’t do what they want (lie down on the floor, open the safe, etc.).
yes because you cant be sure they will do what they say and wont just kill you anyway

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What if this happens in your house?
doesnt matter if it happens on the moon you shouldnt let anyone murder you just to make a liberal democrat feel good about their support of rape robbery and murder

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Originally Posted by Vincine View Post
If your life is not in danger as long you do what they want, does that justify your killing them?
no it justifies you use of self defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincine View Post
How do you know they would not to kill you even if you do what they want? If you know someone by their actions, and their actions are that they are attempting to rob/mug/rape you, my feeling is that they are less than trustworthy. But that’s just my feeling, not the law.
you just answered every question above

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Originally Posted by Vincine View Post
Does armed coercion count as eminent danger? Does armed coercion justify killing someone?

it justifies self defensive actions till they stop


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincine View Post
Basically, "He said he would hurt me if I didn't do X, so I killed him." get you off the hook? Is it right?
no because self defense doesnt mean kill. if the goblin ceased action and he was only wounded or uninjured due to poor marksmanship on your part and fear on his or he turned to run away seeing your firearm and you just kill the goblin anyway you get a free ride to prison.

sounds like you have a lot of confusion regarding self defense. i think you shoould consider taking a good firearm self defense course
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Last edited by JonM; 07-01-2011 at 12:19 AM.
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