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Old 07-06-2013, 12:26 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Chainfire

You seem to take it on faith that this new group is anti-gun. Why is that? Is it not possible that legitimate gun owners would like to form an association that is not as far in right field as the NRA? Do you think that the NRA has a monopoly on the truth?

I can tell you for a fact that not every gun owner dances to the tune of the NRA. I am a gun owner and collector who also hold training credentials from the NRA, and I greatly respect their gun safety and training programs, but I can not tolerate their political stands and the misinformation that the constantly bombard us with.

I am willing to give the new boys on the block a chance to see if they are what they claim they are.
Chainfire, I, like c3, do not have a dog in this fight. I never said they were anti-gun; my statement was they were fence-sitters. To me this means they are trying to please both sides by giving in to groups that are proposing new bans and restrictions. This was eluded to in one of the other above posts and not personally witnessed by me.

Also, nowhere in my post did I mention the NRA nor did I claim any group had a monopoly on the truth. There are many fine pro-gun organizations one can join that are not the NRA and don't take a middle road to gun owner's rights, The Second Amendment Foundation and Gun Owner's of America being two of them.

I'm not sure what I said or did to elicit your response, but I was simply trying to explain the position of those that don't wish to compromise. Any group can start up that wishes to, but every person should realize the actual position of any group of which they are a member.
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainfire View Post
You seem to take it on faith that this new group is anti-gun. Why is that? Is it not possible that legitimate gun owners would like to form an association that is not as far in right field as the NRA? Do you think that the NRA has a monopoly on the truth?

I can tell you for a fact that not every gun owner dances to the tune of the NRA. I am a gun owner and collector who also hold training credentials from the NRA, and I greatly respect their gun safety and training programs, but I can not tolerate their political stands and the misinformation that the constantly bombard us with.

I am willing to give the new boys on the block a chance to see if they are what they claim they are.
You won't tolerate their political stands because they won't endorse someone that is antigun like Obama. If a 100% PRO GUN democrat ran for office, you might see a little support from the NRA.




What exactly is "common sense" or "sane" gun ownership? Background checks? They don't work. Criminals will always find a way around them.

Assault weapon ban? Semi auto rifles are used in a VERY small amount of crimes. You are MUCH more likely to be beaten to death with someone's bare hands than you are being shot by a rifle of any kind. Plus, it's been proven that they don't work. The crime rate didn't go down during the last assault weapons ban, the Newtown shooting happened under an assault weapons ban, and the recent shooting in California happened under an assault weapons ban.

Ban high capacity magazines? I know for a fact that 30 round magazines don't have any true advantages over 10 rounder's. It takes about a second or two to change mags. What's the difference between one 30 rd mag, and three 10 round mags in a shooting? A couple seconds is nowhere near enough time for someone to react and tackle the shooter (a popular argument used by antigunners).

Gun free zones? The fact is, they don't work. The vast majority of shootings happen in gun free zones where people do not have the ability to defend themselves.

Gun registration? They ALWAYS lead to confiscation. Do you really want that?

So I ask you, what is "sane" gun ownership? What are "common sense" gun laws? All I see here are violations of the 2nd Amendment.
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:51 AM   #33
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Judging from the response on FB they are not being well received. I also saw very, very few responses from them to posts that asked questions. Also, they had over 11,000 likes but in a quick scan I saw that the poss critical to them were generating quite a number of "likes" as well. Cold be the critics are more liked than the ARPA is.

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Old 07-06-2013, 01:01 AM   #34
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http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/07/robert-farago/the-birth-of-a-false-flag-operation-american-rifle-and-pistol-association/
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Old 07-06-2013, 01:20 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainfire View Post
You seem to take it on faith that this new group is anti-gun. Why is that? Is it not possible that legitimate gun owners would like to form an association that is not as far in right field as the NRA? Do you think that the NRA has a monopoly on the truth?

I can tell you for a fact that not every gun owner dances to the tune of the NRA. I am a gun owner and collector who also hold training credentials from the NRA, and I greatly respect their gun safety and training programs, but I can not tolerate their political stands and the misinformation that the constantly bombard us with.

I am willing to give the new boys on the block a chance to see if they are what they claim they are.

Listen to who is talking about disinformation. Liberals are the masters of disinformation. You don't want to believe what the NRA says but you believe obama, king of the liars. You want an example? When he ran for the senate he proudly told everyone he was born in Kenya. I heard him say it at least 5 times. Sheesh what a goober.
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Old 07-06-2013, 01:43 AM   #36
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That was a good article that identifies the leadership of R+P. based on their other affiliations and associations, it should be clear where this organization stands.
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Old 07-06-2013, 01:43 AM   #37
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but I can not tolerate their political stands and the misinformation that the constantly bombard us with.

Are you watching that liberal news channel again. I asked ya to turn that crap off. Its hurting your thought process.
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Old 07-06-2013, 02:13 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Chainfire View Post
You know what Opaww. You don't have to like them, you don't have to support them, and I suspect that no one in the new organization cares that you would like to keep an eye on them. One of the great things about America is that we tolerate people who have ideas that are different than our own. If we didn't, we would be no better than any tin-horn dictatorship.

I can understand how some people may be upset about the goals of SANE gun ownership; SANE ownership would be diametrically opposed to the goals of the NRA.

The NRA will be fighting like Hell to bad-mouth this organization. They are used to having a lock on gun issues, and of course, a lock on the financial aid of gun owners. Maybe it is time for someone to come in and shake them up a bit. One thing for sure, the new boys in town would have to work really hard to spread more disinformation than the good old NRA.
Sounds like they already got you and gr8.....and that is how they plan to do it..pick off the ones that drift off to the side first...you are what the gun grabbers call "low hanging fruit"
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Old 07-06-2013, 03:04 AM   #39
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chainfire must of not read this part,

Here are the screenshots that show the Connecticut converted to Texan Chairman of American Rifle & Pistol Association who is an Obama supporter who is pushing Bloomberg/MAIG’s gun control campaigns while helping to promote Moms Demand Action, a group trying to pressure companies to ban lawful concealed carry so gun owners can’t carry in public anymore and convince gun retailers to stop selling the most popular guns in the country.

Bloomingass and maig are about as anti-gun as they get as is mda.

but from the sound of this part,

R+P believes that it is each state's right to determine for benefit of its citizens any prerequisites, qualifications, documentation, training, and levels of demonstrated proficiency, if any, deemed necessary for lawful use of differing types of weapon systems. The establishment of any such requirements are not the prerogative of the federal government.

Now if it is the states right then as eric holder says they are in violation of the supremacy clause. The 2A is supreme law of the land and all states must abide by it. Where the states like CA, CO,NJ,NY,CT,MA are in direct violation of the 2A. You cannot support the Second Amendment and say the states have the right to choose.

These things they support, prerequisites, qualifications, documentation, training, and levels of demonstrated proficiency,are the same as the old Jim Crow laws of the past. Now tell me where in the Second Amnedment it say they have the right to do these things? The second amendment says shall not infringe. not except for or all but, and these things are a infringement even if you don't think so.

And lastly this did not come from the NRA, as much as you two would like for it to

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Old 07-06-2013, 06:47 AM   #40
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Thanks to OPAWW for bringing this to our attention and him and the others for doing the background research to unearth the group's officers and background. However, our little group is over 50,000 people and it is important to understand that not everyone in a group that big has the same beliefs, experiences or morals. This thread is obviously going to have responses from all sides, but everyone on all sides should state their beliefs and then only address the specific issue or issues. Personal attacks hurt feelings and scare less experienced people away from commenting at all, in which case we cannot grow from an opinion that may have been worthwhile.

Lets be fair in our comments and avoid any personal attacks for everyone's benefit. :-).

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