Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Legal and Activism > WARNING! A False Flag Group Launches Today

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Old 07-05-2013, 10:01 PM   #21
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I see lots of red flags with this group so far.
Same here and seeing multiple red flags on the FTF as well.
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Old 07-05-2013, 10:11 PM   #22
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Well I sure am glad you found a new home please shut the door on you way out
Let me put it this way...NO.
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Old 07-05-2013, 10:47 PM   #23
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I see lots of red flags with this group so far.
You know what Opaww. You don't have to like them, you don't have to support them, and I suspect that no one in the new organization cares that you would like to keep an eye on them. One of the great things about America is that we tolerate people who have ideas that are different than our own. If we didn't, we would be no better than any tin-horn dictatorship.

I can understand how some people may be upset about the goals of SANE gun ownership; SANE ownership would be diametrically opposed to the goals of the NRA.

The NRA will be fighting like Hell to bad-mouth this organization. They are used to having a lock on gun issues, and of course, a lock on the financial aid of gun owners. Maybe it is time for someone to come in and shake them up a bit. One thing for sure, the new boys in town would have to work really hard to spread more disinformation than the good old NRA.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:20 PM   #24
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If they have to hide behind cutesy acronym names like SANE, SAFE, or the giant turd of PATRIOT ACT, or call your proposals "common sense"... because who would argue with common sense? ......you know they are up to no good and the end result will not be focused to benefit us or anyone else. They are out to support the leftist disarmament agenda.
Anybody read SunTzu? Sometimes to defeat an adversary you have to dress up as his friend and wear him down from inside.

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Old 07-05-2013, 11:21 PM   #25
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Folks- I do not have a dog in this fight- but I will say this-

I keep hearing about "common sense gun laws". Some time ago, we had one of these that was proposed here in my home state. A member of the VA Legislature introduced a bill that would ban anti-tank weapons.

Well, what the heck! Sounds perfectly reasonable to me! I mean, who the heck is going to be running around with a bazooka! Sure, that makes sense.


Now, let's look at the WORDING of the bill. As written, it would outlaw possession of "Any firearm capable of discharging a round of ammunition that will penetrate an armored vehicle." Well, OK..... but let's define our terms here. What IS an "armored vehicle"?

If a law does not contain a definition of a term (this one did not) then we use the standard dictionary definition, or a common example. When I was a Mech Infantry Company Commander, I was signed for 4 platoons of armored vehicles. M113A1 Armored Personnel Carriers. Looks like this:

Name:  113a1.jpg
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Yep- that there be an armored vehicle. problem is, the "armor" was not intended to stop direct fire weapons. It was intended to protect the occupant from "frag"- fragments of artillery and mortar shells, and grenades. Armor is about 0.5 to 1.5 inches of ALUMINUM.

When loaded with AP ammo, a 30-06, .308, 8mm Mauser, 7.62x54R, .303 Enfield etc can shoot right through it. Both sides. .50 BMG? Kick up dust a quarter mile beyond it.

Notice the law did not address possessing AP AMMO- but a weapon CAPABLE of firing it. That law would have banned the majority of the center fire rifles in VA.

Now, you can tell me it would never have been applied that way- and you may be right. We will not know because THAT bill was clubbed to death in committee. However, if a law SAYS they can- they can.

When someone starts talking about goals in very general, broad terms, without giving specifics, I get uneasy. Very uneasy.

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Old 07-05-2013, 11:29 PM   #26
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I'm sorry, I think your responses are nothing short of laughable. Yes I support sane gun ownership. I've been shooter and a gun owner over 50 years. I see nothing wrong with what this group is saying in it's opening statements. I'm not so narrow in my outlook that just the hint of a reasonable argument scares me into name calling. Maybe, just maybe "responsible", "sane" and "safe" are just that. To suggest that these words, when talking about gun ownership, are subversive is a very sad commentary.
A gunman for over 50 years,my brown paper huffing bag is in my hands now,"I don't wannabee banned again"!
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:39 PM   #27
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A gunman for over 50 years,my brown paper huffing bag is in my hands now,"I don't wannabee banned again"!
So what you're saying is that because I've been a shooter and a gun owner for 50 years, you're afraid of getting banned from something...again. Again? When did I ban you from anything? What exactly are you doing with that brown paper "huffing" bag? Sounds to me like you're "releasing" some pent up feelings. When I was a kid, boys who did that were told they would go blind. good luck with that "huffing".
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:44 PM   #28
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I may not be a "senior" member here and I may or may not know . . . from Shinola, but c3 is the most knowledgeable, experienced, wise voice I have heard here @ FTF and I recommend giving his guidance some serious consideration! Thanks for your input c3, I was just about to ask you for some wisdom here.

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Old 07-06-2013, 12:05 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8oldguy
I'm sorry, I think your responses are nothing short of laughable. Yes I support sane gun ownership. I've been shooter and a gun owner over 50 years. I see nothing wrong with what this group is saying in it's opening statements. I'm not so narrow in my outlook that just the hint of a reasonable argument scares me into name calling. Maybe, just maybe "responsible", "sane" and "safe" are just that. To suggest that these words, when talking about gun ownership, are subversive is a very sad commentary.
Gr8oldguy, what you are saying does make perfect sense. I agree that none of us want felons or the insane to be able to get their hands on a weapon. The problem comes with the anti-gun groups statements that they will take away gun rights a small piece at a time because they know they can't ban them all at once. That means any group that starts out by trying to straddle the fence is going to be advocating new bans and restrictions. We can't start there or we have already surrendered our rights.

As an aside, being an IT professional for three decades, I do not trust a company that does not list actual humans for it's registered contacts. Blind registration or listing other companies is a dodge of someone that is trying to defraud the public. If they plan to be taken seriously, they better change this really quick and lst actual people as their officers that can be background checked and contacted directly.
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:12 AM   #30
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Gr8oldguy, what you are saying does make perfect sense. I agree that none of us want felons or the insane to be able to get their hands on a weapon. The problem comes with the anti-gun groups statements that they will take away gun rights a small piece at a time because they know they can't ban them all at once. That means any group that starts out by trying to straddle the fence is going to be advocating new bans and restrictions. We can't start there or we have already surrendered our rights.

As an aside, being an IT professional for three decades, I do not trust a company that does not list actual humans for it's registered contacts. Blind registration or listing other companies is a dodge of someone that is trying to defraud the public. If they plan to be taken seriously, they better change this really quick and lst actual people as their officers that can be background checked and contacted directly.
You seem to take it on faith that this new group is anti-gun. Why is that? Is it not possible that legitimate gun owners would like to form an association that is not as far in right field as the NRA? Do you think that the NRA has a monopoly on the truth?

I can tell you for a fact that not every gun owner dances to the tune of the NRA. I am a gun owner and collector who also hold training credentials from the NRA, and I greatly respect their gun safety and training programs, but I can not tolerate their political stands and the misinformation that the constantly bombard us with.

I am willing to give the new boys on the block a chance to see if they are what they claim they are.
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