Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Legal and Activism > Veterans are receiving letters from VA prohibiting the ownership or purchase firearms

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-25-2013, 06:21 PM   #31
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ellis36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Batesville,Mississippi
Posts: 832
Liked 655 Times on 305 Posts
Likes Given: 376

Default

First of all, I have no desire to disagree with any opinions expressed on this thread. All are valid as far as
I am concerned. And many are made with an 'on-deck' perspective that I don't have.

I don't believe this subject is about what 'has been' in the past or what 'is' in the present. Rather it is what 'might be' or 'could be' in the future.
As is often quoted in financial investment brochures: "Past history does not guarantee future performance."


I make note that the 'executive actions' listed below, as of January 16, 2013, have not been issued.

The text says the president 'plans to issue.'

It also says 'measures that must be adopted by Congress.'

This being said:

Federal regulations state in 27 C.F.R. § 478.11 a person shall be deemed mentally defective if a
"determination by a court, board, commission,or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness,incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs."

Who gets to determine?
"Determined by a court, board, commission or other lawful authority.”
A broad spectrum that clearly includes the Veterans Affairs (VA).

That there are few known instances of VA doing this in the past doesn't negate their authority to do it in the future.
Presidential executive action #1 (below) would require that 'federal agencies make relevant data available to NICS.'

So the question at hand is: Will a diagnosis of PTSD by VA be allowed to automatically fall into any of the categories listed above.
(Note executive action #4, which might be interpreted to mean "Change the definition of 'mentally unstable' to fit broad standards.")

Some statistics indicate that up to 30% of returning war veterans suffer some form of PTSD.

And, to quote 7point 62:
" PTSD doesn't mean a person is a dangerous lunatic. People who survive bad car crashes or house fires or who fall down a flight of stairs can have PTSD.”

So, could it be that the opportunity to remove 2nd amendment rights to 30% of veterans in one fell
swoop just might be an opportunity this president will jump on with all four feet.

We'll see.

I attached the first seven executive actions. There are 23 total which can be read at the link on page 21.

-------------------------
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/01/16/us/politics/16white-house-gun-proposals-documents.html (page 21)

Published: January 16, 2013
White House Gun Proposals
"...On Wednesday, President Obama unveiled a set of proposals to reduce gun violence, based on the determinations of a panel led by Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. The White House described its plan in a collection of documents, outlining both executive orders that the president plans to issue and measures that must be adopted by Congress...."

screen-shot-2013-02-25-1.07.37-pm.jpg  
__________________
ellis36 is offline  
7point62 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 07:04 PM   #32
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JoshH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 158
Liked 43 Times on 21 Posts

Default

Simple fact is with all the different "solutions" being formulated by our commie government about gun control, they inevitably will have to deal with our most capable and highly trained members of the populous, veterans. The "final solution" can't be achieved unless our patriots are disarmed so don't be real surprised when the talks turn to "unstable" veterans and if they should have guns. Sad part is this will only deter guys with issues from getting help. I do know some great Dr's work for the VA and I hope those Dr's lead the way in opposition to policies that hurt our nations finest men and women!

__________________
JoshH is offline  
Holmes375 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 03:50 PM   #33
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: The Free State of Winston, AL
Posts: 2,841
Liked 1829 Times on 1072 Posts
Likes Given: 878

Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshH View Post
Simple fact is with all the different "solutions" being formulated by our commie government about ANTI-GUN LEGISLATION, they inevitably will have to deal with our most capable and highly trained members of the populous, veterans. The "final solution" can't be achieved unless our patriots are disarmed so don't be real surprised when the talks turn to "unstable" veterans and if they should have guns. Sad part is this will only deter guys with issues from getting help. I do know some great Dr's work for the VA and I hope those Dr's lead the way in opposition to policies that hurt our nations finest men and women!
I fixed it for you!!!
__________________

An armed society is not always a polite society, but it is a free and safe society!
Self Defense is an absolute and natural right!
Keep your head down and your powder dry!

JimRau is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 05:21 PM   #34
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JoshH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 158
Liked 43 Times on 21 Posts

Default

Thanks Jim

__________________
JoshH is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 06:31 PM   #35
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
locutus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,088
Liked 5496 Times on 3112 Posts
Likes Given: 4771

Default

I think we have enough to be concerned about with what "is happening"instead of getting riled about "what might happen." (or not)

If "IT" happens, we deal with "IT" in the courts.

__________________
"We will have peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us."

Golda Meier.
locutus is offline  
alsaqr Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 08:29 PM   #36
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Decisive Terrain
Posts: 2,030
Liked 1355 Times on 688 Posts
Likes Given: 1011

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellis36 View Post
Who gets to determine?...Presidential executive action #1...would require that 'federal agencies make relevant data available to NICS.' ...Will a diagnosis of PTSD by VA be allowed to automatically...

You've brought up valid and disturbing points regarding Obama's Executive Orders that would require the VA--as a federal agency--to openly share priviledged and confidential health information with NICS. And, as you point out, the measurment of what constitutes mental instability could be broadened to include, say, anybody with even a 30% PTSD disability rating.

I have no doubt the President and his cohorts would "jump on with all four feet" any opportunity to disarm weapons-skilled combat veterans.
__________________
Marines, Infantry
145th Airlift Wing, NCANG
NRA Life


Stay smart, stay motivated, stay dangerous
7point62 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 09:34 PM   #37
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Holmes375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
Liked 103 Times on 53 Posts
Likes Given: 87

Default

No fire but bears vigilance.

__________________
Holmes375 is offline  
ellis36 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 11:30 PM   #38
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ellis36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Batesville,Mississippi
Posts: 832
Liked 655 Times on 305 Posts
Likes Given: 376

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmes375 View Post
No fire but bears vigilance.
Well said!
__________________
ellis36 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 11:59 PM   #39
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 24
Liked 13 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyno13 View Post
I'll call B.S.

I'm A veteran and know many veterans and I have not heard of any of these going around.

Watch what you "CALL" friend. What arrives doesn't always make you look good.
I am a 100% disabled Vet and as such have spent time at Balboa Naval hospital, V.A. hospital in Chicago, Dayton Ohio, and Indy. At... ALL...ALL...ALL of them they asked questions about " do you feel depressed" " ever thought about harming others" " DO YOU OWN FIREARMS." These questions are slid into EVERY forum you fill out, and almost every conversation with a Dr.
I asked what these questions have to do with my injured back and was told they were slowly slid into the V.A. program about 6 years ago when we got a new President. Remember when the Gov official said " WE SHOULD PROHIBIT ALL RETURNING VETS FROM FIREARM OWNERSHIP BECAUSE OF THE POTENTIAL OF VIOLENCE." Looking back it wasn't Vets that shot Columbine, the Colorado movie house, Virginia Tech, or the children killed in Conn.
__________________
1old0311 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 12:25 AM   #40
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SW OK
Posts: 4,279
Liked 2050 Times on 1109 Posts
Likes Given: 3083

Default

Quote:
I asked what these questions have to do with my injured back and was told they were slowly slid into the V.A. program about 6 years ago when we got a new President. Remember when the Gov official said " WE SHOULD PROHIBIT ALL RETURNING VETS FROM FIREARM OWNERSHIP BECAUSE OF THE POTENTIAL OF VIOLENCE." Looking back it wasn't Vets that shot Columbine, the Colorado movie house, Virginia Tech, or the children killed in Conn.

Bull$hit flag down.

I'm rated at 80 percent: All my medical treatment comes from the VA. Never has a VA doctor asked me about guns. Never have i seen a VA questionnaire that asked about guns.
__________________
alsaqr is offline  
locutus Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
non citizen firearms ownership? aussie Legal and Activism 15 07-23-2011 02:13 AM
Firearms Purchase Checklist NitroxAZ The Club House 3 07-11-2011 10:25 PM
Intelligence Squared - Second Amendment / Firearms Ownership Debates Swampbilly Legal and Activism 8 12-29-2010 12:16 AM
Firearms ownership: One of the safest activities there is sculker The Club House 6 03-28-2009 06:28 AM