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Old 04-04-2013, 07:30 PM   #81
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At the risk of fanning flames, this discussion has casued me to flashback to 1967. Rural Georgia. We had been out on a remote area training exercise, probably 50 miles form any military reservation. Carrying the arms that an Infantry platoon would carry. M16s. M79s. M60s. Coupla 90mm recoiless rifles.

Miltary buses were returning us to post. Drivers stopped at a little country store for us to get drinks, pogey bait, potty break. We ALL filed thru this little store, weapons in hand or at sling arms, got what we wanted, paid for it, got back on the bus. Store was run by an old black couple that apparently had 200 green faced armed-to-the-teeth young men coming through their store once a week- the bus drivers had this as a regular stop. They were glad to see us, and a couple of the local folks stopped in while we were shopping- no biggy.
Amazing how attitudes change over time.

1992 I deployed to Sinai Egypt with 2/502 Inf. as a 20 year old PFC. This was about a year before Feinstien/Clinton began harping about "assault weapons" and I began paying attention to the debate.

I was "for some reason" a bit freaked out about a "partial" BN of grunts all climbing aboard a commercial 747 while carrying "in our hands" our M9's, M16A2's, M249's, and M60's!

And I was an active duty soldier for gods sake! Just goes to show how "brain washed" a "1990's vintage" soldier was when compared to a "1960's vintage" soldier.

...and YES C3... you are VINTAGE!

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Old 04-04-2013, 10:11 PM   #82
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Disturbing the peace is already against the law. He was guilty of disturbing the peace.
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I didnt give u any guff over it tho, stupid is just that, why the hell people think they have to test the ice when they ready know its to damn thin. Yep stupid should hurt
The effed up part is that by doing what they did, the rest of the gun owning public has to pay the price. i agree, stupid should hurt.

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I am not going to get into another arguement over this issue but I am going to say open carrying where it is completely legal to open carry IS NOT disturbing the peace and IS NOT illegal in anyway. That is not to say that doing certain things to make a scene is a smart thing to do, but it is definitely not illegal.
BCD, Not trying to start an argument or pick a fight here, but it is one thing to walk into the local mall with a pistol strapped to your hip. Walking in with an uncased rifle is something completely different. Both are technically open carry, but one is a lot closer to DTP. If you take into account the political climate, what they did was flat out stupid. Reminds me of the youtube "zeros" that were taped arguing with responding LEOs while the LEOs were just doing their job. A little bit of common sense can go a long way, and these azzhats clearly lacked it.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:20 PM   #83
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You can be legally stopped or "detained" as some might say for simple questioning by an officer of the law hence a terry stop, even if someone has called the cops on you for some reason. All you have to do is be polite, answer reasonable questions such as providing your ID just to check and make sure you are not a felon carrying a weapon and to prove you are allowed to carry it. It's just that simple, anything beyond that is unreasonable and then they are "detaining" you for no reason and you are right, it is illegal at that point. As long as you have provided ID and proven you can carry unless you are suspected of a crime you are free to go no matter what you are told.

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Old 04-04-2013, 10:59 PM   #84
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You can be legally stopped or "detained" as some might say for simple questioning by an officer of the law hence a terry stop, even if someone has called the cops on you for some reason. All you have to do is be polite, answer reasonable questions such as providing your ID just to check and make sure you are not a felon carrying a weapon and to prove you are allowed to carry it. It's just that simple, anything beyond that is unreasonable and then they are "detaining" you for no reason and you are right, it is illegal at that point. As long as you have provided ID and proven you can carry unless you are suspected of a crime you are free to go no matter what you are told.
Very true. The only caveat I would add is to learn you local laws as well as your state laws. Some cities do have more restrictive laws than the state does. here in NY, as long as it stays concealed, and you have a permit you can carry anywhere but in a county, state, federal building, a bank, or a school. However, a NYS permit is not valid in NYC, but NYS honors NYC permits. NYC requires a permit to even own a long gun, go figure. Go over to pa, you can own without a special liscence, but you need one to CC. This changes if you go into Philly, you need a permit to even own there. There is no law against open carry in PA, but also no law allowing it either. The upside to CC in PA, your CCW even covers concealing the pistol within your vehicle, NY only allows carry on your person.

That's why I say learn the laws, the police are less likely to harass you if you cooperate, and you can stay out of a lot of trouble by knowing what is and isn't allowed before you do something. this is true, but LEOs, as with any group, have both good and bad apples in every basket.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:47 PM   #85
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.......stupid is just that, why the hell people think they have to test the ice when they ready know its to damn thin. Yep stupid should hurt
Stupid? Maybe, maybe not.

Anti-hunter organizations encourage various tactics to oppose hunting. One of those tactics is to buy a hunting licence, buy a gun and then hunt like a slob. The intention is to turn public opinion against hunting.

This stunt may have been deliberate.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:27 AM   #86
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What ever happened with this bill, nightstalker?

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Old 04-07-2013, 02:48 PM   #87
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Very true. The only caveat I would add is to learn you local laws as well as your state laws. Some cities do have more restrictive laws than the state does. here in NY, as long as it stays concealed, and you have a permit you can carry anywhere but in a county, state, federal building, a bank, or a school. However, a NYS permit is not valid in NYC, but NYS honors NYC permits. NYC requires a permit to even own a long gun, go figure. Go over to pa, you can own without a special liscence, but you need one to CC. This changes if you go into Philly, you need a permit to even own there. There is no law against open carry in PA, but also no law allowing it either. The upside to CC in PA, your CCW even covers concealing the pistol within your vehicle, NY only allows carry on your person.

That's why I say learn the laws, the police are less likely to harass you if you cooperate, and you can stay out of a lot of trouble by knowing what is and isn't allowed before you do something. this is true, but LEOs, as with any group, have both good and bad apples in every basket.
And any NYC cop who makes an arrest for violating those 'city' or 'state' laws is in direct violation of the oath they took.
I guess the 'new' guys don't care about the oath like us 'old' guys do!!! This is scary stuff!!!
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:21 PM   #88
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BCD, Not trying to start an argument or pick a fight here, but it is one thing to walk into the local mall with a pistol strapped to your hip. Walking in with an uncased rifle is something completely different. Both are technically open carry, but one is a lot closer to DTP. If you take into account the political climate, what they did was flat out stupid. Reminds me of the youtube "zeros" that were taped arguing with responding LEOs while the LEOs were just doing their job. A little bit of common sense can go a long way, and these azzhats clearly lacked it.
A pistol in a holster or a rifle on a sling, doesn't matter to me, both are open carry and both are totally legal in my state and many others. Carrying a rifle is not different than a pistol other than the fear it may elicit from the non gun owning Obama voting public when they see that scary black fire breathing, high capacity magazine, grenade launcher fitted semi automatic "assault rifle". I refuse to take into consideration the feelings of ill informed liberals who are afraid of their own shadows if I am of the mood to practice my 2nd amendment rights.
It is not uncommon to see folks walking around with rifles, shotguns or handguns in my neck of the woods, in full view of the public. I am not going to bash others for practicing their rights.
As I said before, walking into a place like a shopping mall with a rifle maybe isn't the smartest thing but it isn't illegal. You can call them stupid all you want, just because you find them stupid doesn't make what they were doing illegal.
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:00 PM   #89
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And any NYC cop who makes an arrest for violating those 'city' or 'state' laws is in direct violation of the oath they took.
I guess the 'new' guys don't care about the oath like us 'old' guys do!!! This is scary stuff!!!
Yeah some of these younger guys showing up in the forces now will do pretty much whatever the higher ups want them to do and don't use common sense and be reasonable about things like us older more experienced guys do, it is pretty sad actually..... I have watched them go to court and lose cases too because they don't fully understand the letter of the law, or the intent of the law and apply a little common sense to it.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:32 PM   #90
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It is not a right if you can't exercise it, or supposed pro-gunners say you can exercise your right but only here or over there.

No one person doing something is the cause of an social-ist anti-gunner from removing your right. The right is gone because you let them take it.

The New Yorkers just STFU about the new anti-gun laws that just got passed. I don't hear any of them telling that commie governor that he will be un-employed come next election. And many of the pro-gunners will Re-elect his ass next time anyway.

osamaobama did not get re-elected by all liberal anti-gunners, there was a lot of republican pro-gunners that also voted for his social-ist ass.

So it is really you the quasi pro-gunner who allows the social-ist brown round lickers to take anything away from everyone. Instead of standing up for the two people exercising their rights you belittled them and placed them low like a criminal. Because you personally did not believe in what they were doing.

I may not like it either but I will support their right to do so.
Probably the most right reply in the thread.



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Ya know, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that these "macho-badass-wannabe" in your face arse holes are just plain stupid.


The First Amendment gives me the right to stand on a soapbox in front of the Capitol and scream obscenities. But common vsense says don't do it.

SO!!!! Am I "giving away" my 1A rights because I choose common sense instead of being a wannabe badass??????
And example....

Sure, carrying an AR into a mall does not should like my idea of a good time and really should have been a great chance to rethink their options. But, this is an example of gun owners working within the law exercising their right and the very people that that should understand it attack like a pack of wolves.

Saying they are wanna be or a mall is not a place to carry open is no different than saying people should not carry concealed. Weather a gun is a good idea in place A or not.

I will add though that open carry people should not be surprised or upset f they are stopped and asked about it. After all..You are still the man with a gun. And police will answer a call saying there is a man with a gun.

Thing is, gun owners are being picked off because each has their own opinions as to what should be legal and the anti gun crowd uses that to divide and conquer us. They have one common goal...Get - Guns - Gone.
And here we have gun guy A saying, dumba$$! You are just trying to be cool and you deserve to be called a criminal, All I want to do is carry my 8-9 round 1911. Person B wants to hunt with his 30 06 and does to care if anyone can carry a gun because it's dangerous and the cops are trained..Not like normal people. Person wants to have a full auto AR because it says "shall not infringe".

None of you seem to see the pattern and how well it works against us. It's exactly the same as having two conservative people running in an election. The vote is split and the the liberal that was backed by all their minion gets the chair at the big table. It's this phenomenon that has been putting nails in the gun owners coffin for years.

You are rather for or against the 2A This includes open carry people, people that want auto/select fire weapons, hunters, and the guy that only wants a 22 to kill some paper with his kids on a nice summer day. They are all connected and we as gun owners need to band together and support each other as gun owners.

Sure, we need to not give them any ammo in their quest to stop us. But the deck is stacked against us to begin with. And where do we draw the line in the sand?
Would pistol have been OK?
Only concealed?
Should open carry be illegal?
A yes to any of these answers means you are a gun owner that is for restrictions to the 2A...You just want to be the one that picks the restriction.
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