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Old 02-03-2013, 02:08 PM   #71
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It wasnt that long ago that you could walk around with a rifle slung over your shoulder and no one cared. Now we have all started to hide in the corner. And we point our finger and say that was stupid to do that. But look at what has happened to the common people. They fear us for no reason. Perhaps we should start open carrying again once in a while just to remind the public tghat it is ok.
Just what we need. Piss off a bunch of people who are currently neutral and drive them to the other side. Get them writing letters to their reps demanding more gun restrictions.

Yeah, that would really be a stroke of genius.
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:28 PM   #72
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At the risk of fanning flames, this discussion has casued me to flashback to 1967. Rural Georgia. We had been out on a remote area training exercise, probably 50 miles form any military reservation. Carrying the arms that an Infantry platoon would carry. M16s. M79s. M60s. Coupla 90mm recoiless rifles.

Miltary buses were returning us to post. Drivers stopped at a little country store for us to get drinks, pogey bait, potty break. We ALL filed thru this little store, weapons in hand or at sling arms, got what we wanted, paid for it, got back on the bus. Store was run by an old black couple that apparently had 200 green faced armed-to-the-teeth young men coming through their store once a week- the bus drivers had this as a regular stop. They were glad to see us, and a couple of the local folks stopped in while we were shopping- no biggy.
Reminds me of a story from when I was in the Navy, we were driving back
from a drill, rifle and pistol competition in Iowa. We had 3 of the fifteen
passenger vans. Bill and I were driving the one in the rear, we had the back
two seat removed and from floor to the bottom of the windows we were
packed with M1's (demilled drill rifles), M14's, M16's, .22 target rifles, pistols
and enough ammo to take control of a small 3rd world country. Well except
for the me and Bill who were designated drivers, everyone else had more
then enough beer before hitting the road home. Some where along I-80
they were all having to piss, so we pulled over and let them out, Bill and I
drained some coffee, just then a Iowa state trooper pulls up. The van is
marked US Navy and has US govt plates.

Nice enough gentlemen, asking us if he looks in that van he not going to see
a bunch of beer cans rolling around. We answered him No, Sir. There is no
alcohol in that van, Sir. He made some comment that it appeared that our
comrades had been drinking, we confirmed that they had been drinking but
that we had not. He spoke to us a little most likely just to confirm we were
sober. Which we were, heavily caffinated but sober. Bill and I were just
worried that if he had looked in the van and opened any cases and saw full
auto rifles we might have some 'splaining to do, Bill and I both new the M14
and M16 were on the top of the stack also, that never happened again...

Well he never asked to look in the van just suggested that on our next potty
break we pull up an off ramp and stay clear of the roadway. We thanked
and were quickly on our way.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:20 AM   #73
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I don't think anyone on this thread actually lives here in Utah, because for 1, Utah was recently trying to push a constitutional carry law (allowing any law-abiding citizen to open carry or conceal carry without a permit) and 2, in Utah we love the second amendment (it's even protected in our state constitution). And with the story about the guys in JCpenny's, they didn't get in trouble, because they were asked by the store manager to either leave or put their guns in their cars, (which they did) in complete compliance with the law.

The only times when people get in trouble for open carrying is when they are; 1, on someone else's private property without permission. 2, under the influence. 3, not complying with a police officer (gives the officer a reason to arrest you for disorderly conduct). And 4, getting into fights with others (verbally will get you arrested for disturbing the peace) (physically will get you aggravated assault and battery charges, possibly with a dangerous weapon)

If you open carry and a store/property owner asks you leave or take your gun home, be polite and do what they say, unless you want the cops to come. Usually if you are polite to a cop and comply he will let you go, the cops out here in Utah appreciate all gun owners and respect our rights.

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Old 04-04-2013, 09:38 AM   #74
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I don't think anyone on this thread actually lives here in Utah, because for 1, Utah was recently trying to push a constitutional carry law (allowing any law-abiding citizen to open carry or conceal carry without a permit) and 2, in Utah we love the second amendment (it's even protected in our state constitution). And with the story about the guys in JCpenny's, they didn't get in trouble, because they were asked by the store manager to either leave or put their guns in their cars, (which they did) in complete compliance with the law.

The only times when people get in trouble for open carrying is when they are; 1, on someone else's private property without permission. 2, under the influence. 3, not complying with a police officer (gives the officer a reason to arrest you for disorderly conduct). And 4, getting into fights with others (verbally will get you arrested for disturbing the peace) (physically will get you aggravated assault and battery charges, possibly with a dangerous weapon)

If you open carry and a store/property owner asks you leave or take your gun home, be polite and do what they say, unless you want the cops to come. Usually if you are polite to a cop and comply he will let you go, the cops out here in Utah appreciate all gun owners and respect our rights.
But only if you do what they say? Doesn't sound like respect to me.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:22 PM   #75
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But only if you do what they say? Doesn't sound like respect to me.
Almost always they just check on you to see if you aren't insane or a felon, because some uneducated person called the cops on you, they usually ask if everything is ok, very rarely has a cop asked for me to remove my pistol. They don't make you do anything out of the ordinary, you don't have to give them your name, (unless of course you were doing any of the above offenses and you are being detained)

They really don't make you do anything except stop you to ask some very basic questions: What are you up to?, Are you lawfully allowed to own a firearm? Etc, Etc......

The point is if you are not an ass when you answer these questions and you comply with BASIC questions you most likely won't get arrested, he might give you a lecture of why he stopped you and how he was just doing his job and how you scared some people.....

But why wouldn't you do what a cop asks of you, especially if you are open carrying! He's just doing his job, and 1 of 2 things would most likely happen; 1, he can arrest you for failure to follow police instruction (maybe disturbing the peace due to you having a weapon). Or 2, rookie cop gets a little nervous because you are open carrying, arguing with him, and not following his orders, and then he either arrests you for threatening an with a deadly weapon or uses leathal force (probably would be justified)

It's gun owners that argue with cops (when the cops are just checking on you and doing their job) that give other gun owners a bad name.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:41 PM   #76
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Ok. There are multiple Supreme Sourt cases on this. A cop can't even detain you for simply possessing a weapon or because someone called the cops on you OR because you refuse to answer questions. So the suggestion that you can be arrested for not complying with orders which carry no legal authority (OXYMORON!) is frankly quite insulting.

Having been in that situation multiple times, I can tell you it's quite a harrowing feeling to know you've been kidnapped and that if you try to escape, you'll likely be beaten or worse.

The fact is police routinely supersede their authority when conducting terry stops. Most of the time (traffic stuff aside) the stop is illegal.

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Old 04-04-2013, 04:06 PM   #77
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That's what I'm saying "HE CAN'T AND WON'T DETAIN YOU UNLESS YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER/COMPLY WITH EVERY SINGLE BASIC QUESTION!!!!

If you speak to the cop nicely and explain that you are just exercising your rights, he will let you go. But it's when you refuse to communicate in an orderly manner that's when you can possibly get in trouble, and yes they can charge you with disorderly conduct, they have done it before, it's rare but when they do arrest they put on the biggest charge they can possibly get. Take it from a guy who open carries and ACTUALLY LIVES IN UTAH.

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Old 04-04-2013, 04:19 PM   #78
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Ok. There are multiple Supreme Sourt cases on this. A cop can't even detain you for simply possessing a weapon or because someone called the cops on you OR because you refuse to answer questions. So the suggestion that you can be arrested for not complying with orders which carry no legal authority (OXYMORON!) is frankly quite insulting.

Having been in that situation multiple times, I can tell you it's quite a harrowing feeling to know you've been kidnapped and that if you try to escape, you'll likely be beaten or worse.

The fact is police routinely supersede their authority when conducting terry stops. Most of the time (traffic stuff aside) the stop is illegal.
What State do you live in? I'm curious and if you do live in Utah too, which police department is giving you problems for open carrying?
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:49 PM   #79
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I live in an area of North Carolina that's packed with statists and socialists. And I'm getting the **** out of dodge ASAP.

But you missed what I was saying. They can't detain you. This is a legal term for you can't leave but you're not under arrest. Many of them impose a terry stop despite constitutional text, federal statute, and supreme court rulings to the contrary. The fact that you don't answer questions doesn't give the officer the right to escalate their already illegal stop to an arrest and criminal charge.

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Old 04-04-2013, 05:51 PM   #80
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I live in an area of North Carolina that's packed with statists and socialists. And I'm getting the **** out of dodge ASAP.

But you missed what I was saying. They can't detain you. This is a legal term for you can't leave but you're not under arrest. Many of them impose a terry stop despite constitutional text, federal statute, and supreme court rulings to the contrary. The fact that you don't answer questions doesn't give the officer the right to escalate their already illegal stop to an arrest and criminal charge.
I get what you are saying but they do it anyways, I'm just saying its way easier if you show respect to the officer by answering his dumb questions (even if the cop doesn't deserve respect) in Utah we don't have many problems with gun violence so the only cops who really give any trouble about open carrying are the cops in more liberal areas (Salt Lake City and West Valley City in particular)

I'm just saying that here in Utah, being respectful and polite to a cop (even if he doesn't deserve it) usually gets you off the hook. I will agree that they shouldn't escalate to arresting people for OC, but there is a loophole that some of the more liberal cops use to make those arrests recently we tried to pass a constitutional carry law that would do away with the need for conceal carry permits, they also tried to pass a law that would prohibit officers from harassing/detaining law-abiding citizens for OC, and would protect anyone who was OC from being charged of disturbing the peace and trespassing..... Sadly it was vetoed by our left-leaning Governor Herbert, so I guess for now we just have to be nice when being confronted by officers for OC, they usually let us go
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