Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com

Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/)
-   Legal and Activism (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/)
-   -   US supplied weapons to Mexico? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/us-supplied-weapons-mexico-24740/)

Anonymous_Coward 03-16-2010 04:32 AM

US supplied weapons to Mexico?
 
Hello all, I'm a newbie, and basically registered to ask a question that someone here may be able to answer. I've been trying to keep up with the news of the violence in Mexico (mostly because that's where I live), and I've noticed in documentaries and different news forums that they keep saying that the majority of weapons come from the US. I don't know if they are referring to legitimate imports, but the implication is that the narcos are all using US arms. I happen to know that the most common weapon used by the narcos is the AK-47 (called "cuerno de chivo"), and was wondering if they are even manufactured in the US. Does anybody know?

Jpyle 03-16-2010 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous_Coward (Post 249587)
Hello all, I'm a newbie, and basically registered to ask a question that someone here may be able to answer. I've been trying to keep up with the news of the violence in Mexico (mostly because that's where I live), and I've noticed in documentaries and different news forums that they keep saying that the majority of weapons come from the US. I don't know if they are referring to legitimate imports, but the implication is that the narcos are all using US arms. I happen to know that the most common weapon used by the narcos is the AK-47 (called "cuerno de chivo"), and was wondering if they are even manufactured in the US. Does anybody know?

The AK-47 is the single most mass produced firearm in the history of man. Why would anyone risk smuggling them across the US border when the Commies in South America are literally giving them away. What you read is BS designed to bolster the anti-gun zealots here in the US.

The unregulated sale of fully automatic weapons has been banned in the US for decades, your average drug cartel smuggler cannot just walk into Bubba's Gun Shop and order up a batch of fully auto AKs as the stories imply.

Anonymous_Coward 03-16-2010 04:53 AM

I know they are common, given the fact that they are reliable and fairly cheap. I didn't realize they were #1. I gather then that they are manufactured in the US. How hard are they to obtain?

Trust me, the people who take them into Mexico wouldn't be worried about any risk, at least with the Mexican authorities.

Gojubrian 03-16-2010 06:05 AM

It's a media twist to support their claim, but it's not true in the slightest.

Debunked here:

FOXNews.com - The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.

Quote:

In fact, it's not even close. The fact is, only 17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S.

Obama, once again, wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in the hindquarters.

jeepcreep927 03-16-2010 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gojubrian (Post 249634)
It's a media twist to support their claim, but it's not true in the slightest.

Debunked here:

FOXNews.com - The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.



Obama, once again, wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in the hindquarters.


Amen brother. The liberal media wants the general public to believe that Average Joe American is buying up all the guns at Wal Mart or the local gun shop and smuggling them to Mexico. Because it's America's gun laws (or apparently lack there of) that are causing violence in Mexico, not the multi-billion dollar drug trade... :confused:

Anonymous_Coward 03-16-2010 06:29 AM

Thank you, Gojubrian! That's exactly the information I was looking for.

One of the documentaries I saw from the BBC, was actually not too bad in some ways, but they went from reporting on the situation in Ciudad Juarez (1500 murdered last year, and just today some US State Dept employees and their families) to a gun show in El Paso. All of a sudden I was wondering WTF!? They made it sound like the Mexican Mafia was buying it's AKs at gun shows. Then they interviewed some bureaucrat from ATF who mentioned the statistic about the majority of weapons being bought in the US. Since then, I've seen the "statistic" pop up again. Thanks for clearing it up.

Angrypoonani 03-16-2010 07:12 AM

America has supplied weapons to many many countries and then taught them how to shoot them. Kinda sux we are so nice cuz it always bites us in the ass.

D:

jeepcreep927 03-16-2010 07:16 AM

Exactly. The guns are being supplied by the US government to another government and either stolen or re-routed. They are certainly not being purchased at retail and sold in Mexico.

Gotta love the anti-gun media spinning it their way.

Gatekeeper 03-16-2010 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous_Coward (Post 249597)
I know they are common, given the fact that they are reliable and fairly cheap. I didn't realize they were #1. I gather then that they are manufactured in the US. How hard are they to obtain?

Trust me, the people who take them into Mexico wouldn't be worried about any risk, at least with the Mexican authorities.

Select fire AK-47 aren't made here in the US. They are military weapons originally made in the USSR. Widely adopted and also manufactured at one time by communist countries such as USSR, China, Bulgaria, Romania
A full list and history can be found here--------->AK-47 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

The low production and materials costs of the AK-47 meant that the Soviet Union could produce and supply client states with this rifle instead of sending surplus munitions. As a result, the Cold War saw the mass export, sometimes free of charge, of AK-47s by the Soviet Union and Communist China to pro-communist countries and groups such as the Nicaraguan Sandinistas and Viet Cong. The AK design was spread to over 55 national armies and dozens of paramilitary groups.
The proliferation of this weapon is reflected by more than just numbers. The AK is included in the flag of Mozambique and its coat of arms, an acknowledgement that the country's leaders gained power in large part through the effective use of their AK-47s. It is also found in the coat of arms of Zimbabwe and East Timor, the revolution era coat of arms of Burkina Faso, the flag of Hezbollah, and the logo of the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps.
Western cultures, especially the United States, have seen the AK-47 most often in the hands of nations and groups the United States condemns; first the Soviet Army, then its Communist allies during the Korean and Vietnam Wars. During the 1980s, the Soviet Union became the principal arms dealer to countries embargoed by the United States, including many Middle Eastern nations such as Syria, Libya and Iran, who were willing to ally with the Soviet Union against U.S. supported states like Israel. After the fall of the Soviet Union, AK-47s were sold both openly and on the black market to any group with cash, including drug cartels and dictatorial states, and more recently they have been seen in the hands of extremist factions such as the Taliban and Al-Qaida in Afghanistan and Iraq, and FARC guerrillas in Colombia. In the United States, movie makers often arm criminals, gang members and terrorist characters with AKs. For these reasons, the AK-47 is stereotypically regarded by most U.S.-influenced cultures as the weapon of the enemy.
In Mexico, the weapon is known as "Cuerno de Chivo" (literally "Ram's Horn) and is commonly associated with drug cartels and the local mafia. It is sometimes mentioned in folk music lyrics.


robocop10mm 03-16-2010 02:19 PM

Don't believe what an ATF bureaucrat says any more than any other government bureaucrat. AK's are cheap, reliable and plentiful. The Chinese are still making AK's for export. 20 years ago, you could buy a full auto AK with 3 mags, cleaning kit, bayonet and 100 rds of ammo via the black market in the Los Angeles area for $350. They are imported illegally, sold illegally and kept/used illegally. The porous nature of the deep water ports in the US makes it fairly easy to smuggle large numbers of such guns.

The Mexican ports are even more porous. A few hundred $ pays a customs official to look the other way while an entire shipping container filled with thousands of AK's are off loaded and delivered to a cartel.

There are more full auto firearms supplied to the cartels by the US government than all the straw purchases or gun shows combined. The US gives/sells M-16s and other military weapons to the Mexican Government. They in turn issue them to their soldiers who defect in droves to the cartels and take their US made weapons with them.

I believe there is a US maker of full auto AK's. They are filling contracts to re-arm/upgrade Iraqi and Afghan military and police. Their production is strictly monitored and assured to actually leave the US.


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:00 AM.

Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.