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Old 04-11-2013, 07:39 PM   #61
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i'm not sure i agree with this. if they would pass laws to protect gun rights simultaneously with necessary gun regulations, then this might not be true. for example, when a UBC is passed, pass legislation that makes it illegal (at a federal level) to keep a record of the check. shred any docs, and electronic stores of info could hold serious offenses (these can be easily tracked).

but compromise is so rare these days. what would our constitution have been, if our founding father adopted the attitude "my way or the highway?"



not sure i agree with this either. are there more guns than cars in america? i'm not for registration of firearms, but my point is, a system could be created to UBC on virtually every firearm sale out there. if someone goes around it, they can take their chances with jail time, just like breaking any other law.



if anything, in my mind....this statement SUPPORTS UBC. the easiest way by far to get a gun in america is to go to a store and buy one. next, and certainly not much harder, is through private sales...the place most criminals currently get their guns imo.
i posted this and realize in the climate of partisan politics and greedy, "watch your own back" politicians, i might as well wish for a pony....BUT

why is it thought impossible to compromise between even the two MOST opposite ends of gun control? the answer....maybe in the end, BOTH sides are becoming unreasonable.

with todays modern technology, background checks could work from gun counters to private sales.....its not unreasonable to think they could cover EVERY gun sale from today on.

and to say you have to register a firearm to make a UBC successful, really does not make sense to me.

(again in a perfect world, where politicians valued the BOR's and safety ) you could pass a law that states ALL firearms sales, public and private must go through an FFL for a background check. a law that could pass simultaneously with this law, could state ALL info be destroyed and any attempt to record the transaction either with paper or electronically (this can be tracked) would be a federal gun offense, thus protecting citizens from gun registration, which as we know in history, leads to confiscation more often then not.

would this stop gun crime? no, as long as there are guns and humans, there will be gun crime. could this deter criminals from easy access to guns...i think so. could they still get them? yes, but now getting a gun through a private sale without the UBC would be a crime, and should face HARSH penalties.

this would have an impact on straw purchases as well....if the consequences were HARSH. i'm not buying a gun for my ex-con buddy if the consequence was years in the pin.

again, i'm dreaming based on today;s political climate, but in a world where our lawmakers cared about out freedoms AND our safety, i think effective changes could be made.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:46 PM   #62
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i posted this and realize in the climate of partisan politics and greedy, "watch your own back" politicians, i might as well wish for a pony....BUT

why is it thought impossible to compromise between even the two MOST opposite ends of gun control? the answer....maybe in the end, BOTH sides are becoming unreasonable.

with todays modern technology, background checks could work from gun counters to private sales.....its not unreasonable to think they could cover EVERY gun sale from today on.

and to say you have to register a firearm to make a UBC successful, really does not make sense to me.

(again in a perfect world, where politicians valued the BOR's and safety ) you could pass a law that states ALL firearms sales, public and private must go through an FFL for a background check. a law that could pass simultaneously with this law, could state ALL info be destroyed and any attempt to record the transaction either with paper or electronically (this can be tracked) would be a federal gun offense, thus protecting citizens from gun registration, which as we know in history, leads to confiscation more often then not.

would this stop gun crime? no, as long as there are guns and humans, there will be gun crime. could this deter criminals from easy access to guns...i think so. could they still get them? yes, but now getting a gun through a private sale without the UBC would be a crime, and should face HARSH penalties.

this would have an impact on straw purchases as well....if the consequences were HARSH. i'm not buying a gun for my ex-con buddy if the consequence was years in the pin.

again, i'm dreaming based on today;s political climate, but in a world where our lawmakers cared about out freedoms AND our safety, i think effective changes could be made.
So Hawkguy... Let's expand upon your fantasy here and assume that we could get it done and that it did work as you describe.

You've still not answered how is stops the "prohibited" person from romancing, threatening, or extorting the ladies in there lives "who can pass the check" from buying the gun and handing it over.

Are we really looking to lock up Sheniqua and Yolanda for life because they bought LaShaw and Hector their "Gats" in order to avoid being gang raped and killed?

As long as America has 21 year old women with clean records, the most dangerous and violent criminals will still get there guns.

All you accomplish is the creation of an even larger group of criminal/victims who had no choice of the neighborhood they were born into.

Tack
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:51 PM   #63
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We could pass laws that outlaw crime. Or maybe pass laws that impose severe penalties on using guns to commit a crime instead of criminalizing ownership of guns.
i agree completely. get freakin TOUGH on crime, i will NEVER argue with that!

and i don't think law abiding citizens should get things removed from them based on the action of others.

but it is never that simple imo. half these scumbags who shoot up 10+ people at once, off themselves...it leaves everyone thinking "well, who do we punish for this?" or if they catch the scumbag....they can only kill him ONCE. i wish they could murder him for every murder he committed, that would feel more like TRUE justice. but life just isn't fair, i'm afraid. and as much as i would LOVE to see some of these psychos killing kids get strung up publicly, we have other rights we must value...such as due process, 5th amendment, freedom from cruel punishment and so on.

in the mean time, if people would REALLY sit down and think about how we could protect our children AND our fundamental rights, we might make things better....perfect...never...but better?....i think we always have room for improvement myself.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:54 PM   #64
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what we really need is a real life hero. lik ebatman or superman, or daredevil, or any of the marvil comic good guys.. hehehe

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Old 04-11-2013, 08:00 PM   #65
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So Hawkguy... Let's expand upon your fantasy here and assume that we could get it done and that it did work as you describe.

You've still not answered how is stops the "prohibited" person from romancing, threatening, or extorting the ladies in there lives "who can pass the check" from buying the gun and handing it over.

Are we really looking to lock up Sheniqua and Yolanda for life because they bought LaShaw and Hector their "Gats" in order to avoid being gang raped and killed?

As long as America has 21 year old women with clean records, the most dangerous and violent criminals will still get there guns.

All you accomplish is the creation of an even larger group of criminal/victims who had no choice of the neighborhood they were born into.

Tack
thanks for at least considering my fantasy... but you know, if it can be dreamed....

the best i can answer you tack, is that NO system would be perfect. criminals will be criminals and must be dealt with. but could it be better than it is now? certainly.

from my point of view, a crime is a crime. if the public is aware, and understands the law, there is really no excuse.

also, buying the gun and selling it without the backgound check would be a crime! would it be easy to catch or control? no! but the police could create stings, incentives for snitching, all the standard things that coppers do. once a person was caught in these straw purchases, they have a criminal record and do time. no more selling guns!

perfect? no. better than now....i think so.

thanks for your comments, you make good points. could you improve on the flaws of my fantasy land?
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:02 PM   #66
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what we really need is a real life hero. lik ebatman or superman, or daredevil, or any of the marvil comic good guys.. hehehe
as long as he is BULLETPROOF and....

wait...are y'all making fun of me?
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:09 PM   #67
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thanks for at least considering my fantasy... but you know, if it can be dreamed....

the best i can answer you tack, is that NO system would be perfect. but could it be better than it is now? certainly.

from my point of view, a crime is a crime. if the public is aware, and understands the crime, there is really no excuse.

also, buying the gun and selling it without the backgound check would be a crime! would it be easy to catch or control? no! but the police could create stings, incentives for snitching, all the standard things that coppers do. once a person was caught in these straw purchases, they have a criminal record and do time. no more selling guns!

perfect? no. better than now....i think so.

thanks for your comments, you make good points. could you improve on the flaws of my fantasy land?
I don't need to improve upon the flaws... Straw purchasing is ALREADY illegal, whether it's done for profit, love, or fear is irrelevant.

The Government already has all the power it needs to stop Straw Purchases... they simply choose to not allocate the funding to investigate, prosecute, and stop this crime.

...and they won't do it any better regardless of how much more power we hand them.

At the end of the day, the only thing that changes is the further erosion of our liberty for no gain in stopping criminal activity.

As usual, the only REAL answer is LESS Restrictions. If the residents of gang controlled neighborhoods could legally CCW, this activity would drop. If the LAC's living there could kill these thugs in self defense without fear of prosecution, this activity would drop.

All of America's killing fields are basically "micro" versions of the Country of Mexico where self defense is outlawed, only outlaws are armed, and the State is powerless to protect the residents. The residents ONLY option for survival IS to support the criminals and the cycle continues.

More restriction will NEVER solve this problem.

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Old 04-11-2013, 08:09 PM   #68
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Let's say I have a pistol that I bought at a gun show some time ago, from a private party, and without undergoing a background check or verifying that it hasn't been reported stolen.

Would I have been willing to have a background check (NICS) at the door to get a "PASSED" stamp to allow me to buy at the gunshow? I shouldn't have to, it is an affront to "shall not be infringed", but I probably would have if the show looked worthwhile. Would this stop me from selling that same pistol to some wannabe gangbanger a week later? If the pistol were recovered at the scene of a nasty triple homicide featuring a seriously abused chicken corpse, could the police trace the gun back to me? Nope. Who could they trace it to? The manufacturer and from there to the distributor and hopefully to the original FFL who sold it to the guy who traded it for some knives at a gunshow about four years before I bought it at another gunshow. The first purchaser from that original FFL who sold it MIGHT be someone they could locate, but he/she would have no way to know where that pistol is today; do they remember the name of the older gentleman who traded them some knives for the pistol, Maybe, Maybe Not. Could the older gentlemen remember my name? Nope, because the firearm is not REGISTERED TO ME; the registration and paper trail on each firearm will be coming next.

So, what would that UBC at the gunshow do for anybody? Doesn't seem like much, not without a registration and paper trail.

Would I support registration or a paper trail like that, HEEEEELLLL NO! I would suddenly feel MUCH more comfortable buying on the gray/black market without the paperwork for das gubermint.

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Old 04-11-2013, 08:34 PM   #69
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Since the entire notion of Gun Control rests upon the false notion that Law Makers are smarter than Criminals... I'm going have to roll my eyes and stick with my current position of...

NO COMPROMISE.

Tack

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Old 04-11-2013, 09:27 PM   #70
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Since the entire notion of Gun Control rests upon the false notion that Law Makers are smarter than Criminals... I'm going have to roll my eyes and stick with my current position of...

NO COMPROMISE.

Tack
Right behind ya, Tack.
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