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Old 04-11-2013, 04:44 AM   #41
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Bigcountry02 has covered well the fact that Universal Background Check (UBC) will be a national registration that will just create the address list to follow when they go door-to-door for confiscation. It is exactly mirroring the Germany of the '30's.

But a part of the bill-of-goods also being sold to us in these UBC's is that it will somehow weed out persons who are mentally unstable. Exactly how? Federal HIPPA regulations make all medical records sealed to anyone other than the patient or doctor. Even a spouse must be specifically allowed to get test results and order prescriptions by the patient's signature. The only exception is if the doctor believes that the patient is an IMMEDIATE threat to himself or others. Most physicians won't violate patient confidentiality for fear of a lawsuit that collapses their practice.

So then we need a new violation of our privacy to obtain access to our medical records to determine what you have been treated for and what drugs you take. Nothing wrong with that, you say? Well, there are drugs out there that are used to treat psychotherapy problems and they are also used to treat physical conditions, either on-book or off-book. Just one example: Cymbalta is advertised on TV to treat anxiety and depression, but it is also on-book (approved by the FDA) to treat diabetic peripheral neuropathy (nerve pain caused by diabetes), fibromyalgia (intense muscle and bone pain), chronic pain related to muscle and bone. So when Cymbalta is added to the list of drugs used to treat "crazy people" with anxiety and depression, what is to stop those people using it under doctor supervision for pain problems from having their guns removed? Perfectly sane people can have their rights violated simply because they take or at one time took a single drug. And Cymbalta is just an example - there are literally hundreds of drugs that have multiple purposes that cross all sorts of symptoms.

It is a slippery slope to support a poorly-defined act (Remember the Patriot Act? All congressmen signed it, but nobody had enough time to read it!) simply as a feel-good, knee-jerk reaction to a tragedy. Time and time again these bills are passed and after-passing analysis shows that none of the bills restrictions would have done anything to prevent the tragedy that caused the bill to be drafted. Just for once I would like to see a piece of legislation that actually DID something other than make the fearful civilians feel better.

It's also interesting that when police were polled on what they believed was the major cause of these children committing mass murder, the majority didn't think it was in large magazines or video games. The majority believed it was the decline of the family and poor parenting. Let's open up THAT discussion about these being poor parents and the fact that poor parenting is causing deaths. The media's head would collectively explode before it would tell parents THEY were causing all these deaths.

If we had the polls and then went after the cause that professionals thought was the actual cause, we might actually get somewhere towards improving this country and repairing its' values.

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Old 04-11-2013, 05:16 AM   #42
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I'd support it if we got something in return. In order to stop the buildup of pointless laws.

Even if they enact all the legislation on the table, will it significantly impact crime and school shootings?

If the answer is no, then what happens after ANOTHER school shooting???

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Old 04-11-2013, 11:06 AM   #43
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It is always for the children.

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Old 04-11-2013, 11:40 AM   #44
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No compromise on BOR's, there are ways to change them but they wont go there because a Constitutional Convention isnt like writing a law, its an uphill climb with little or no chance of doing anything but re-affirming our current rights and they dont want that. Like the ERA amendment, it failed because we already have equal rights under the law Via "All Men are Created Equal", stating it again would be stupid.

Our rights are clearly being tampered with and violated, just like the Un-Patriot Act and The Un-Safe Act; Acting is for Hollywood, this is for real and both of those laws violate our rights in an attempt to "Act" like they are doing something even though they are not.

Were well past the slippery slope and into the clam steamer! There just is no single justification to compromise a single Right in this or any other case other than For Our Own Good, thats not a legal position, its "Fettering" plain and simple.

"An Ounce of Prevention is worth a pound of cure" is the unwritten code they are exacting on us but that was a reference to healthcare not rights. We have no rights to expect prevention when someone gets knocked up and chooses to kill their baby, why is it legal to try to restrict legal activities with firearms using the same logic? Preventing thoughts from turning into actions sounds good if you say it fast enough but Orwell didnt write our BOR's even if some of his progressive followers are trying to enact his Sci-fi vision in real time.

I will compromise on just many things that arent a right or a responsibility underlying the Oath I took and still maintain. That oath we took was for our grandchildren and theirs not a RepubliCrat DIC! "This we will Defend" is more than a slogan, its my duty to God, My Family and my Country never to aid or abed any dissolution or watering down of our God Given Rights ever; no compromise on that, it invalidates everything millions have fought, died or were disfigured defending.

Did I say "No Compromise"? Thats exactly what I meant, not a single inch of give on that, none, zero, zip, Nada, Nix, Nin, Hell no, I will die before I break that promise!

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Old 04-11-2013, 12:27 PM   #45
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It accomplishes what its designed to do, make sure you can legally own a gun before a gun store will hand you one. Seriously, they are not going after "Assault Weapons" high capacity magazines, or your guns.

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Old 04-11-2013, 02:17 PM   #46
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The only way for bgc to be fully effective would be full registration of all firearms, so that private sales are reported via paperwork by both parties to the authorities so that the transfer is logged.

This is what happens in the UK. In America this would be impossible to achieve due to the sheer numbers of guns out there.

Bgc will achieve nothing. Water always follows the path of least resistance. Criminals are no different!

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Old 04-11-2013, 02:21 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyno13 View Post
It accomplishes what its designed to do, make sure you can legally own a gun before a gun store will hand you one. Seriously, they are not going after "Assault Weapons" high capacity magazines, or your guns.
I thought it was to save children in schools? Now Im confused...

I live in NY, they have already gone after those things and won, temporarily. If you are a citizen in this country, you have the rights of all those endowed with them except when you have proven beyond a doubt that you will compromise someone elses with the device your trying to own. A felony Conviction, history of violent crime or a presenting yourself in a manner that would lead the salesperson to believe the purchaser shows due cause to question the transaction are about the only things that could be considered reasonable proof of a purchase. The same things necessary to get employed at most places could be reasonable.

Only the judgement of actions not intent or ability have any chance of a standing the test in the courts and time.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:37 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by lfcshooter View Post
The only way for bgc to be fully effective would be full registration of all firearms, so that private sales are reported via paperwork by both parties to the authorities so that the transfer is logged.
Your government knows it, too.

http://www.nraila.org/media/10883516/nij-gun-policy-memo.pdf

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This is what happens in the UK. In America this would be impossible to achieve due to the sheer numbers of guns out there.
We just dumped registration of long guns in Canada. After more than a decade of seeing gun owners prosecuted for paper crimes, we finally put it on a manure pile....where it always belonged. It did nothing to reduce homicides. Nada. Dr. Caillin Langmann, and others, proved that beyond any doubt. It was a $2B Registry to Nowhere.

Registration of short guns is still required in Canada. That law was enacted here in the early 20th cent. when our government was afraid that immigrant Bolsheviks would start a revolution here, too. I haven't seen a Bolshevik in,...oh.......years, but we still have the registry. Nobody's ever shown that does any good.

ps: Registration is not impossible with fast computers. It's just a bad idea. It also has nothing to do with Newtown, btw.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:37 PM   #49
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Ooops. Sorry, I guess my clutch slipped a bit there.
no worries! i could see where it might have looked like i was implying that. i just wanted to clarify my post.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:54 PM   #50
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lfcshooter;1210452]The only way for bgc to be fully effective would be full registration of all firearms, so that private sales are reported via paperwork by both parties to the authorities so that the transfer is logged.
i'm not sure i agree with this. if they would pass laws to protect gun rights simultaneously with necessary gun regulations, then this might not be true. for example, when a UBC is passed, pass legislation that makes it illegal (at a federal level) to keep a record of the check. shred any docs, and electronic stores of info could hold serious offenses (these can be easily tracked).

but compromise is so rare these days. what would our constitution have been, if our founding father adopted the attitude "my way or the highway?"

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This is what happens in the UK. In America this would be impossible to achieve due to the sheer numbers of guns out there.
not sure i agree with this either. are there more guns than cars in america? i'm not for registration of firearms, but my point is, a system could be created to UBC on virtually every firearm sale out there. if someone goes around it, they can take their chances with jail time, just like breaking any other law.

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Bgc will achieve nothing. Water always follows the path of least resistance. Criminals are no different!
if anything, in my mind....this statement SUPPORTS UBC. the easiest way by far to get a gun in america is to go to a store and buy one. next, and certainly not much harder, is through private sales...the place most criminals currently get their guns imo.
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