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Old 04-12-2013, 12:46 PM   #131
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Great convo, Even MAIG disputes the effectiveness of past and future UBC's. The numbers of those denied and those prosecuted for deception are almost silly. Less than 1 in a thousand get prosecuted currently and 1/4 of those denied were done so without due cause. Check out the link below, if you still think new laws are the answer, past application of the old ones doesnt seem effective and the new law add millions to the list of possible offenders the will not be prosecuted with the new law!

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2013/feb/03/mayors-against-illegal-guns/us-files-criminal-charges-fraction-gun-denial-case/

The discussion here is two actually, one is the BOR legal one, the other is postulation of facts not in evidence today! I do support Hawks right to require a UBC on himself but not on me. Trust me, I can pass one, my TS/ SI clearance says I can. No UBC will go untracked, every transaction will be logged, a come get me notice will be posted in a DHS/ SHTF inbox and thats unacceptable in a Free America!

Vincents point about the 2A shouldnt go unheard or unheeded; our government being the reason we have a 2A is the same reason we cannot allow them to control legal access to it's intended purpose, prevent and respond to Tyranny by our own Government (comprised of people not deities), the very same Gov that has proven time and again its unworthy of blind faith. There is a reason our money say "In God We Trust" instead of "In Government we Trust", because trust can only come from supreme insight and knowledge; we have neither of those, just our Constitution and BOR's to live by and with.

So the answer to the question, "Will UBC's Work?" is the same as "will requiring drivers licenses stop speeding, end Auto fatalities and DWI's? No, Millions of Americans and non are driving on our highways right now regardless of not having a legal permit to do so, many with legal permits shouldnt have one for various reasons, why would requiring a UBC be any different? If the thing that causes the most deaths, Automobiles cant be made safer through licenses, why would guns be safer? If you know your un qualified, your just gonna pass on the BCG and pick one up with no questions asked somewhere else, "cash in hand, trust no man and down the road they go".

Victimless crimes only make more criminals and do not protect the victim of actions by a perpetrator of a crime ever.

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Old 04-12-2013, 01:15 PM   #132
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. . . Even MAIG disputes the effectiveness of past and future UBC's. The numbers of those denied and those prosecuted for deception are almost silly. Less than 1 in a thousand get prosecuted currently and 1/4 of those denied were done so without duue cause. Check out the link below, if you still think new laws are the answer, past application of the old ones doesnt seem effective and the new law add millions to the list of possible offenders the will not be prosecuted with the new law! . .
I know this. This non-enforcement is criminal.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:27 PM   #133
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Do any of you find it odd that Zero wants stiffer background checks for gun
sales; yet we can't get a background check on Zero?

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Originally Posted by Vincine View Post
NYC and Chi both have strict gun restrictions.
True.

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NYC has the lowest gun violence & crime rate its had in decades. Chicago is having its highest.
Not true, you need to not get your facts from the media, because they do
not report facts anymore. They only support their agenda.

Chicago's annual murders total ~500 these days and they are creeping
back up. However, they are still half of what it was in the late eighties and
early nineties when I was going to college and living on the south side of
Chicago. I have lovely memories of laying in bed in my dorm and listening
to automatic weapons fire coming from the Robert Taylor homes...

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The difference is, basically, if you have a gun in NYC, you go to jail. In Chicago you don’t.
Please explain this one...

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Old 04-12-2013, 02:41 PM   #134
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I at one time believed Bill understood our rights. He now appears to be nothing but a tool
Agree completely.
He has been in the big city too long.
Sometimes I think he would endorse communism if it increased his ratings...
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:54 PM   #135
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Yeah I never thought Bill O'Reilly would be just as bad as Pierce Morgan wow. is Sean Hannity just as two faced?

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Old 04-12-2013, 03:21 PM   #136
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Without securing the straw purchase procedure, UBCs aren’t going to make an appreciable dent in criminal use of firearms. I think only execution of violent career criminals would do that.

Bingo!

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Old 04-12-2013, 03:35 PM   #137
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Quote:
Personally, I doubt that extending background checks will make a difference. Criminals avoid background checks now by buying through private sales or stealing guns. They will continue to do exactly that.
I don't think background checks will make any differences in America so its not worth doing. But i don't agree with the above statement or similar statements. Just because people brake laws is not a good reason for not having them. Take it further no point of having driving laws no point in having laws against rape murder or any other crime because people some will brake them anyway.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:41 PM   #138
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Not true, you need to not get your facts from the media, because they do not report facts anymore. . .
The numbers came from the FBI/DoJ crime states, which I can't seem to find now. Both Chi & NYC had just under 500 gun homicides in 2012, but NYC has three times the population.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:45 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ez2b
Yeah I never thought Bill O'Reilly would be just as bad as Pierce Morgan wow. is Sean Hannity just as two faced?
I don't think Sean is there yet....Levin will come on his show still!
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:52 PM   #140
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Yeah I never thought Bill O'Reilly would be just as bad as Pierce Morgan wow. is Sean Hannity just as two faced?
O'Reilly has been a disappointment, for sure. In some ways I can't fathom, he has moved toward statism while pretending to be a conservative. Hannity has not joined him, IMO.

Seems to me there is only one party on the stage who truly believes in restraining the size and scope of government and that is the Tea Party. Hannity supports them; O'Reilly doesn't.
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