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Old 06-10-2013, 07:58 PM   #521
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Here is what is written in a Fox News report:

The treaty would require countries that ratify it to establish national regulations to control the transfer of conventional arms and components and to regulate arms brokers, but it will not explicitly control the domestic use of weapons in any country.

The US is the largest exporter of guns in the world. The congress is in such an uproar because the gun lobby is threatening to cut off their checks. This is about protecting big business, not about protecting 2a.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/03/lawmakers-urge-obama-to-reject-un-arms-treaty-as-it-opens-for-signature/#ixzz2VqSbAZbg

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Old 06-10-2013, 09:21 PM   #522
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A quote from Kerry's feeble attempt at justification:
"The coalition noted that more than 500,000 people are killed by armed violence every year"
500,000. How's that for a legitimate-sounding number? But then, 95% of all statistics are made up on the spot to support whatever argument...
And "killed by arms"? Right arms, left arms? Short arms? How about guns, drones, missiles, mortars, machete's, bombs, kitchen knives, hatchets, fires, poison, etc, ad nauseum. But taking away hndguns from law-abiding Americans will eliminate all the violence?


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/03/lawmakers-urge-obama-to-reject-un-arms-treaty-as-it-opens-for-signature/#ixzz2VqmQiLKb

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Old 06-11-2013, 01:26 AM   #523
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Has anyone actually read the text of the treaty? You can download it (122 pages in 6 or 8 languages). Here's a taste!

Article 5
General Implementation
1. Each State Party shall implement this Treaty in a consistent, objective and non discriminatory manner, bearing in mind the principles referred to in this Treaty.
2. Each State Party shall establish and maintain a national control system, including a national control list, in order to implement the provisions of this Treaty.
3. Each State Party is encouraged to apply the provisions of this Treaty to the broadest range of conventional arms. ... For the category covered under Article 2 (1) (h) [small arms], national definitions shall not cover less than the descriptions used in relevant United Nations instruments at the time of entry into force of this Treaty.
4. Each State Party, pursuant to its national laws, shall provide its national control list to the Secretariat, which shall make it available to other States Parties. States Parties are encouraged to make their control lists publicly available.

Sound like fun? How about ideas like this? (Imaginary idea, not an actual quote.) "In order to establish national control lists and apply ATT to the broadest range of conventional arms, it is necessary to know who has more than a single weapon for personal self defense. We require all gun owners to register all weapons so that we can establish the national control lists. In keeping with the ATT, we intend to publish these national control lists." (But not hard to imagine our current regime uttering these words.)

Think people got pissed at one newspaper publishing a list in a couple counties? How about when the Federal government publishes the entire nation!

Yeah, it's all about exporting and importing. Right.

And gun control "is for the sake of the children". It actually says that in the ATT also, though their wording is much more sophisticated, "Bearing in mind that civilians, particularly women and children, account for the vast majority of those adversely affected by armed conflict and armed violence". (Actual quote.)

Don't pretend that the ATT won't affect us domestically. It encourages import tariffs on ammunition, arms and components. Need parts for your Glock? XD? SigSauer? Beretta? ... Have we got a deal for you... Pay more... A lot more... It encourages export controls as well. Think the cost of compliance for domestic arms manufacturers will be borne entirely by the offshore market? Think again.

Signing the ATT (or ordering it to be signed) should be considered treason. Ratifying it should be considered an act of war by the Federal government against the American people. Just my opinion.

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Old 06-11-2013, 04:49 AM   #524
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There's a fair bit of information about the international scene here:

http://iapcar.org

It's been useful for me because our gun controllers like to bat around "stats" from other countries to support their hare-brained ideas. Probably somewhat the same in the U.S.?

Anyway, Rwanda stands as testament to what can be accomplished with determination and farm implements against an unarmed population. It is beyond my comprehension how anyone can think this "treaty" will make civilians safer from those have determined to kill them.

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Old 06-11-2013, 07:03 AM   #525
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The Left Wing Socialist see firearms companies as the cause of war. Arms companies start wars. Now if they can shut down the arms trade they can close down the source of firearms. This would make the American 2nd Amendment useless.

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Old 06-12-2013, 03:24 AM   #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitestalker View Post
The Left Wing Socialist see firearms companies as the cause of war. Arms companies start wars.
For some reason, they don't see camera manufacturers as the cause of child pornography.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:01 AM   #527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky7 View Post
For some reason, they don't see camera manufacturers as the cause of child pornography.
cars cause people to drive drunk, spoons cause people to get fat, pencils cause misspelled words........................

part of Obama and Clinton's big push for signing the ATT is because they have rallied behind the concept that more gun control laws and treaties such as this will help end gun violence and criminal acts. that it will help stop illegal weapons trafficking. that it will prevent violent incidents like the Sandy Hook school shooting or the Aurora theater shooting and so on, and on. that was his platform for pushing for more gun control back in February which got knocked down.

nothing they have proposed will stop or end these violent encounters by mentally unstable individuals. the UN can't stop illegal arms trafficking and this treaty isn't about stopping violent insurrections. it's about gun control and power. nothing more, nothing less.

look at any third world nation with a dictactor or a supreme ruler that the people are unarmed and tell me they have a true voice in what does or doesn't affect their lives. tell me they enjoy freedom and have rights. tell me they can oppose their government without repercussions. they can't because they have no arms, so therefore they have no voice or power.

there use to be the Golden Rule, that he that has all the gold, rules. not so much true. he who has all the guns, rules.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:00 PM   #528
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A wide angle view of the progression of gun control laws has unfolded in Venezuela, where guns have now been totally banned.

The government was able to do all that because they passed registration and licensing laws.

There is absolutely no good reason to go down these paths.

Recent, gold-plated research in Canada by Dr. Caillin Langmann has confirmed that ALL of:

licensing gun owners
checking for licences when guns are bought
registration of long guns
licensing of owners
strict storage requirements euphemistically called "Safe Storage Regulations"
storage of ammo regulations
magazine size limits
banning "assault rifles"

had NO beneficial result in this country over a span of 35 years! None....Zero.....Zilch......Nada......Squat.

How good was his study? It was done with the same methodology used to approve new cancer treatment drugs. In other words, the gold standard.

http://jiv.sagepub.com/content/27/12/2303.abstract

Gun control is not about public safety and it's not about guns. It's just about control.

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Old 06-19-2013, 11:31 PM   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balota View Post
Has anyone actually read the text of the treaty? You can download it (122 pages in 6 or 8 languages). Here's a taste!

Article 5
General Implementation
1. Each State Party shall implement this Treaty in a consistent, objective and non discriminatory manner, bearing in mind the principles referred to in this Treaty.
2. Each State Party shall establish and maintain a national control system, including a national control list, in order to implement the provisions of this Treaty.
3. Each State Party is encouraged to apply the provisions of this Treaty to the broadest range of conventional arms. ... For the category covered under Article 2 (1) (h) [small arms], national definitions shall not cover less than the descriptions used in relevant United Nations instruments at the time of entry into force of this Treaty.
4. Each State Party, pursuant to its national laws, shall provide its national control list to the Secretariat, which shall make it available to other States Parties. States Parties are encouraged to make their control lists publicly available.

Sound like fun? How about ideas like this? (Imaginary idea, not an actual quote.) "In order to establish national control lists and apply ATT to the broadest range of conventional arms, it is necessary to know who has more than a single weapon for personal self defense. We require all gun owners to register all weapons so that we can establish the national control lists. In keeping with the ATT, we intend to publish these national control lists." (But not hard to imagine our current regime uttering these words.)

Think people got pissed at one newspaper publishing a list in a couple counties? How about when the Federal government publishes the entire nation!

Yeah, it's all about exporting and importing. Right.

And gun control "is for the sake of the children". It actually says that in the ATT also, though their wording is much more sophisticated, "Bearing in mind that civilians, particularly women and children, account for the vast majority of those adversely affected by armed conflict and armed violence". (Actual quote.)

Don't pretend that the ATT won't affect us domestically. It encourages import tariffs on ammunition, arms and components. Need parts for your Glock? XD? SigSauer? Beretta? ... Have we got a deal for you... Pay more... A lot more... It encourages export controls as well. Think the cost of compliance for domestic arms manufacturers will be borne entirely by the offshore market? Think again.

Signing the ATT (or ordering it to be signed) should be considered treason. Ratifying it should be considered an act of war by the Federal government against the American people. Just my opinion.
I concur...

Tack
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:08 PM   #530
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This is remotely related because it shows the "Bloomberg mentality", but worth reading:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/19/bloomberg-group-apologizes-after-naming-tamerlan-t/

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