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Old 07-22-2012, 05:49 PM   #21
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Honestly I dont care what you think...Who knows why the last threads were deleted...do you get private messages from the moderators? ...and don`t try to say I have responsibility for others racist beliefs..

We never had a debate as you put it...A debate has facts discussed on both sides ....I had facts your responses were woefully void of any facts other than your cockeyed view of the world...and how to deal with events....

So this is new to me..... this forum requires people only post lock step with people such as yourself...Hum I don`t think so but we`ll see...
the fact is you were the only one to bring the race issue into that thread, so yes you are responsible. and the thread was deleted right after your comments! hmmm...

as by your liberal viewpoint, we never had a debate? you had facts? all the facts? i had facts as well as my own opinions which i stated as such, you just chose to disregard mine or overlook them because they didn't agree with yours.

i'll say it again, after the last thread, i have zero respect for you whatsoever and i won't apoligise for that comment now or ever. when you posted the comment about race, you disrespected this forum and it's members. so have a nice day sir, as i have nothing further to say to you.


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Old 07-22-2012, 06:01 PM   #22
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Yes we do, more level headed Americans with ccws is the only way to prevent future massacres.

"An armed society is a polite society!"
I am not trying to be a troll. Just wanted to get that out in the open from the start.

I agree that more CCWs could have made a difference but, the level of training that each person carrying has would also be a major factor in the outcome of an event like this one. The suspect (as much as it sucks, he is innocent until proven guilty) was wearing full body armor, and he threw in CS gas canisters. The general panic of the patrons of that theater, along with posibly not being able to breath or see due to dakness and CS gas. Anyone who tried to stop the threat is going to aim for center mass, and then the shooting comes from somewhere else. How many armed, untrained (or undertrained) civilians are going to wind up shooting an innocent bystander just trying to escape, or each other? Or wind up making a bigger target of themselves, saving others by letting them escape, but also drawing more attention to potential victims around them? A persons level of training is a mojor factor in a case like this, and must be taken into account.

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I have owned guns for many decades...I shoot and collect them so I have a few...So what I`m going to say will upset some...

Until sensible gun owners start the discussion of who should not own certain guns... laws will come down that no one likes... there will be gun control at some point...so gun owners can either be part of the discussion or be left out...

People in this country are not going to hide their children and themselves in their houses because it`s to dangerous to go out.... just so people can own certain guns...You can have every logical and legal argument you want but there is a ever growing consensus that something needs to be done....

We can expect the gun lobby to come after many guns available to the public today because no one has a way to determine who will be another mass murderer...plus big cities have monumental problems with guns gangs and innocent people.....

I know many will say who cares the second amendment gives me the right to bare arms...But remember it doesn`t say what kind those arms will be...what caliber...and it doesn`t guarantee how much those arms will cost....They can easily increase ammo by 10x and make it impossible to find....

If one more big thing happens in the months to come....I will guarantee things will happen....
You bring up some good food for thought, but gun control and more restrictive laws for those who abide by them, does not work. The criminals will always have a different mindset from the those of us who obey the law. The biggest piece of ammo that I see for the anti gun crowd is that this suspect used legally obtained guns. It is rare that this happens.Gun control laws are an odd thing because of their logic. "The reason we need more and more restrictive laws is because the current ones we have do not work." Makes no sense to me.

I think that the anti gun crowd calling for new laws and bans right now is highly insesnetive in light of current events, and that it is wrong on their part. The victims and survivors of this tragedy are in my thoughts and prayers, as are their loved ones. We, as responsible guns owners, need to stand together, at this time of tragedy. And to fight for our rights and those of others when the time is right, after the knee jerk reactions have slowed down and people have had time to think things through.


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Old 07-22-2012, 07:07 PM   #23
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I am not trying to be a troll. Just wanted to get that out in the open from the start.

I agree that more CCWs could have made a difference but, the level of training that each person carrying has would also be a major factor in the outcome of an event like this one. The suspect (as much as it sucks, he is innocent until proven guilty) was wearing full body armor, and he threw in CS gas canisters. The general panic of the patrons of that theater, along with posibly not being able to breath or see due to dakness and CS gas. Anyone who tried to stop the threat is going to aim for center mass, and then the shooting comes from somewhere else. How many armed, untrained (or undertrained) civilians are going to wind up shooting an innocent bystander just trying to escape, or each other? Or wind up making a bigger target of themselves, saving others by letting them escape, but also drawing more attention to potential victims around them? A persons level of training is a mojor factor in a case like this, and must be taken into account.



You bring up some good food for thought, but gun control and more restrictive laws for those who abide by them, does not work. The criminals will always have a different mindset from the those of us who obey the law. The biggest piece of ammo that I see for the anti gun crowd is that this suspect used legally obtained guns. It is rare that this happens.Gun control laws are an odd thing because of their logic. "The reason we need more and more restrictive laws is because the current ones we have do not work." Makes no sense to me.

I think that the anti gun crowd calling for new laws and bans right now is highly insesnetive in light of current events, and that it is wrong on their part. The victims and survivors of this tragedy are in my thoughts and prayers, as are their loved ones. We, as responsible guns owners, need to stand together, at this time of tragedy. And to fight for our rights and those of others when the time is right, after the knee jerk reactions have slowed down and people have had time to think things through.

Yes current events are tragic but insensitivity means nothing in politics..I like you don`t believe gun control laws solve the problems but no amount of rationalization will stop some type of controls once they get started....

We have to realize that the majority of the public....especially ones that surround large cities see guns as the problem....and they see it on a nightly basis...I happen to live 40 mi outside of Chicago....You can`t imagine [ or maybe you can] the news or the amount of gun play on a daily basis in Chicago...

A short story...Some time back I was in the hospital for a treatment and in this very large area you see many people in the process maybe 30/40 people...I always bring along magazines to read since it takes about 2 hr`s...Anyway I had a Guns and Ammo mag...the nurse happen to come by to check me and saw what I was reading...she immediately walked to the center of the area and shouted out don`t get on Mr ----- bad side he has guns....I couldn't believe my ears but thats the reality of what gun owners have to put up with....and there`s a lot of them...

I truly believe they will zero in on ammo and gun sales over the Internet....and the sale of arms between private parties....and their old Assault weapons and large capacity mags....The gun dealers would love that...guns and ammo prices would go up instantly big profits will be made...We have some slack time until the elections are over but after there will be a movement....Looks like guys on forums won`t have a lot to say since no one is organized...so we can only hope for the best...Have a good one...
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:33 PM   #24
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Hmm... so "control" means "ban" and "rational gun owners" are ones who would give up their ownership? That wouldn't be rational.
Well it is exactly what the gun control advocates would have you believe....they don't want to ban just control.....you are not giving up your ownership just the ability to own certain guns.....then you wake up a little to late to see that they have encroached a small step at a time to the point that they have banned ownership entirely and as a 'rationale gun owner" you let them. But hey it made you feel good about yourself so what the heck. Good luck with that.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:50 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by jimjc View Post
I have owned guns for many decades...I shoot and collect them so I have a few...So what I`m going to say will upset some...

Until sensible gun owners start the discussion of who should not own certain guns... laws will come down that no one likes... there will be gun control at some point...so gun owners can either be part of the discussion or be left out...

People in this country are not going to hide their children and themselves in their houses because it`s to dangerous to go out.... just so people can own certain guns...You can have every logical and legal argument you want but there is a ever growing consensus that something needs to be done....

We can expect the gun lobby to come after many guns available to the public today because no one has a way to determine who will be another mass murderer...plus big cities have monumental problems with guns gangs and innocent people.....

I know many will say who cares the second amendment gives me the right to bare arms...But remember it doesn`t say what kind those arms will be...what caliber...and it doesn`t guarantee how much those arms will cost....They can easily increase ammo by 10x and make it impossible to find....

If one more big thing happens in the months to come....I will guarantee things will happen....
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Originally Posted by jimjc View Post
Yes current events are tragic but insensitivity means nothing in politics..I like you don`t believe gun control laws solve the problems but no amount of rationalization will stop some type of controls once they get started....

We have to realize that the majority of the public....especially ones that surround large cities see guns as the problem....and they see it on a nightly basis...I happen to live 40 mi outside of Chicago....You can`t imagine [ or maybe you can] the news or the amount of gun play on a daily basis in Chicago...

A short story...Some time back I was in the hospital for a treatment and in this very large area you see many people in the process maybe 30/40 people...I always bring along magazines to read since it takes about 2 hr`s...Anyway I had a Guns and Ammo mag...the nurse happen to come by to check me and saw what I was reading...she immediately walked to the center of the area and shouted out don`t get on Mr ----- bad side he has guns....I couldn't believe my ears but thats the reality of what gun owners have to put up with....and there`s a lot of them...

I truly believe they will zero in on ammo and gun sales over the Internet....and the sale of arms between private parties....and their old Assault weapons and large capacity mags....The gun dealers would love that...guns and ammo prices would go up instantly big profits will be made...We have some slack time until the elections are over but after there will be a movement....Looks like guys on forums won`t have a lot to say since no one is organized...so we can only hope for the best...Have a good one...
I have to respectfully disagree with the bulk of your perceptions within your comments. First you keep referring to the "majority" and some "consensus" of opinion by the American public that there should be some sort of restriction on gun ownership. Whether that be by certain type or individual. I don’t see any evidence of that. In fact the most recent polling data available has shown a steady decline in the number of Americans supporting gun control, so much so that politicians, especially those on the left , have been very careful to avoid bringing it up as an issue. There are always those die hards who will and who will use this latest tragedy to further their agendas but to say that most Americans will support them is a stretch. You point to Chicago as an example of those Americans living and dealing with gun violence and infer that they represent the position of the majority of Americans regarding gun control and a desire to somehow restrict guns in order to ensure safety. It should be obvious that cities like Chicago, who already impose some of the toughest restrictions to lawful gun ownership, have failed to stem the illegal use of guns that those restrictions were supposedly intended to stop. Your insistence that “sensible gun owners” should somehow concede to some restrictions to ensure we keep at least some is not an act of sensibility, but one of appeasement. The same philosophy that enabled Hitler to continue to annex countries and peoples until it became apparent that his goal could not be stopped with just giving him “a little more and he will stop” policy. The same is true of those seeking to impose gun control upon this nation. And there is organized opposition the gun control lobby outside of this forum. The NRA, GOA, etc. are involved in actively fighting those who would restrict our Second Amendment rights. Your prediction of ways around our rights, artificial ammunition taxes etc. have been around for decades and successfully stopped in most cases. But they will continue to be used in an effort to restrict ownership of firearms or the means to use them. Overall the shootings in Colorado were a tragedy committed by a madman and we should condemn his actions to the fullest, but it is not the reason for gun owners to now acquiesce to unreasonable and unconstitutional restrictions upon our right to bear (not bare, no one should be naked while handling a firearm ) arms.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:18 PM   #26
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Alxltd1, very well said! i agree with what you just said 100%. to concede as gun owners to restrictions is appeasement that at what point do we draw a line and say no further. if you ever give an inch, a person will take a mile from you. and as history has proven, time and time again, once something is lost, it is far harder to regain it back.
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:20 PM   #27
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It is my greatest wish that the gun-grabbing liberals/progressives try to jump on this tragedy bandwagon. They'll be left with tire tracks across their six-oclocks. We can be thankful there is an election coming up so the Annointed One has to stay away from the issue. But we still have to contend with the likes of Feinstein, who doesn't mention anything about her ARMED guards, which we pay for. Or Rendell, who's only experience with guns was prosecuting urban goblins who kill each other for sport in Phila. After living in south central PA for many years, I can tell you he doesn't speak for the vast majority of Pennsylvanians. It is the Progressive(communist) mantra, "Never let a crisis go to waste!"
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:35 PM   #28
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I have to respectfully disagree with the bulk of your perceptions within your comments. First you keep referring to the "majority" and some "consensus" of opinion by the American public that there should be some sort of restriction on gun ownership. Whether that be by certain type or individual. I don’t see any evidence of that. In fact the most recent polling data available has shown a steady decline in the number of Americans supporting gun control, so much so that politicians, especially those on the left , have been very careful to avoid bringing it up as an issue. There are always those die hards who will and who will use this latest tragedy to further their agendas but to say that most Americans will support them is a stretch. You point to Chicago as an example of those Americans living and dealing with gun violence and infer that they represent the position of the majority of Americans regarding gun control and a desire to somehow restrict guns in order to ensure safety. It should be obvious that cities like Chicago, who already impose some of the toughest restrictions to lawful gun ownership, have failed to stem the illegal use of guns that those restrictions were supposedly intended to stop. Your insistence that “sensible gun owners” should somehow concede to some restrictions to ensure we keep at least some is not an act of sensibility, but one of appeasement. The same philosophy that enabled Hitler to continue to annex countries and peoples until it became apparent that his goal could not be stopped with just giving him “a little more and he will stop” policy. The same is true of those seeking to impose gun control upon this nation. And there is organized opposition the gun control lobby outside of this forum. The NRA, GOA, etc. are involved in actively fighting those who would restrict our Second Amendment rights. Your prediction of ways around our rights, artificial ammunition taxes etc. have been around for decades and successfully stopped in most cases. But they will continue to be used in an effort to restrict ownership of firearms or the means to use them. Overall the shootings in Colorado were a tragedy committed by a madman and we should condemn his actions to the fullest, but it is not the reason for gun owners to now acquiesce to unreasonable and unconstitutional restrictions upon our right to bear (not bare, no one should be naked while handling a firearm ) arms.
The vast majority of people here live in the larger cities and suburbs...The vast majority of Mayors and Police Depts. want better gun control...Their coalition is led by billionaire Mayor of New York Blumberg. far and away the majority of people living in these cities which are the majority of the population want better gun control...Gun control is at this point heavy background checks...Taxes levied on ownership and gun schools run by police depts....all designed to limit ownership...Plus many more restrictions I won`t go into here..Yes ammo restriction...through availability and scarceness have been around but dont discount these as silly they will return because thats the fast way around 2 amendment...

It`s not just about Chicago it`s every big city...it was just a personal example...

I`ve read the latest polls regarding gun control...Far and away up into the 80% of people want better gun control...People don`t want large capacity mags or assault guns...and they don`t want everyone owning guns...there will be limitations I hope your`re right but don`t think there's a chance...

Since Colorado they are screaming about this guy getting 6000 rounds off the internet and all these guns in a few months..All we can hope is that this all dies down till after elections but I have my doubts
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:45 PM   #29
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:53 PM   #30
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