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Old 09-08-2013, 03:12 AM   #181
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[QUOTE=DeltaF;1360617]... Because until the investigation is conducted the officer does not know that this person is "innocently carrying a firearm."

A part of the "investigation" should be staying back a safe distance and OBSERVING. Is this person acting normally or pacing and shouting? You should not necessarily rush in and start asking questions.

We get called out on a daily basis to investigate "a man walking his dog." Yes. This happens. It sucks. The person is almost always cooperative and says "yeah i'm so-and-so, I live right up the road from here at this address, here's my license." Then we take the license down in about 10 seconds and wave at them while they keep walking. Then we write about a 4 sentence BS report.

We get similar calls "strange man jogging down the street. Black male about 35 YOA in shorts and t-shirt." Nope, dispatch cancel that call. THAT is NOT suspicious.


Edit: just recently someone was fired from an agency in this area for deleting these types of calls out of the system late in the shift so he wouldn't have to investigate or write reports on them. It's tempting to try to just fly through these type calls and try to find the quickest exit to all of them, but that's what gets people killed.

There are MANY calls that do not warrant a response. "but there is a dead possum in the street in front of my house. Someone needs to remove it." Yup, and that person is YOU. We do not remove dead animals.[/QUOTE]

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Old 09-08-2013, 03:36 AM   #182
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There are MANY calls that do not warrant a response. "but there is a dead possum in the street in front of my house. Someone needs to remove it." Yup, and that person is YOU. We do not remove dead animals.[/QUOTE]
Around here, when the PD gets that call, the PD calls me. I tell them as politely as my smart ass can, that picking up road kill is just as much in their job description as it is in mine. I TREAT GROUND WATER FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. NOT pick up roadkill. Actually, I thinking that picking up roadkill would be closer to the PD's job description than mine, if you want to really stretch it.

You would think they'd learn by now.

And when a resident calls about it, I politely tell them... "Okay. Just wait a little while." them, "you're gonna come pick it up?" Me, "just wait for it..." them, "....Aw man, three cars just hit it again!" Me, "yup, and by the time you wake up in the morning, it'll just be a dark spot on the road."
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:22 PM   #183
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If they are a traffic hazard we move them, but it is not our job to pick up dead animals. The crows, magpies, and buzzards take care of that!!!

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Old 09-08-2013, 08:50 PM   #184
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In MS open carry was passed this year, and finally approved by the Supreme Court (no regular tacos for them) last week. So far the only visible impact has been that most every store and restaurant has added a "no firearms" sign to their door. The thing that bothers me is it is "no firearms" not "no unlicensed firearms" (no license required on OC here) or "no visible firearms that might upset our other customers"; it is my understanding that even the enhanced concealed carry permit doesn't allow carry past the signs. I have no problem with property rights or businesses choosing their customer base.
It bothers me also when I see the no firearms signs in stores. We have a shooting range here in Tulsa (2A Shooting Center, if any are interested) that gives away business cards. Not much surprise there, but the cards have a fascinating message:

"Your 'no gun' sign prevents me from patronizing your business.
So I, my family, and other gun owners will spend our money with your competitors.
Look on the back to see why you should remove your sign.
No Guns = No Money"

The other side reads:

"Your 'no gun' sign is bad for business. It does nothing to make you safer or prevent crime. It simply tells criminals you are an easy target and drives away good customers who have a handgun carry license.
As an Oklahoma Handgun License Holder, I ...
- Have no felony convictions (lifetime)
- Have never been convicted of any drug offense
- Have no mental defects or disabilities
- Have passed a criminal history background check.
How much do you know about your other customers?"

Most restaurants, grocery stores, pharmacies, hardware stores, etc. do NOT display such signs. But a few do, like Buffalo Wild Wings. Perhaps that's because they also have a section of their facility set up as a bar. Also, a lot of their business is people buying beers and margaritas and eating a little chicken while they're there. So, they may be borderline about whether more than half of their business is from selling food. That is the criteria for the restaurant exception to carrying where liquor is consumed.

Surprisingly, none of the liquor stores I've been in have a no gun sign. Shortly after OC was passed in OK, I carried into my regular liquor store. The manager, somewhat nervously, asked if I was allowed to carry in his store. I told him I was allowed to unless he said I wasn't. I told him that the law restricted open or concealed carry in places where liquor is consumed. You can't consume liquor in a liquor store. He was very relieved. I went home and printed out the pertinent section and took it back. We talked some more. His relief was from finding out that he did not need to ask armed customers to leave. He also appreciated getting a copy of the law. On a later visit, I saw him showing the page to a lady. I loitered until she left. He had been explaining to her that I had a right to carry in the store.
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Last edited by Balota; 09-08-2013 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:53 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Balota View Post
It bothers me also when I see the no firearms signs in stores. We have a shooting range here in Tulsa (2A Shooting Center, if any are interested) that gives away business cards. Not much surprise there, but the cards have a fascinating message:

"Your 'no gun' sign prevents me from patronizing your business.
So I, my family, and other gun owners will spend our money with your competitors.
Look on the back to see why you should remove your sign.
No Guns = No Money"

The other side reads:

"Your 'no gun' sign is bad for business. It does nothing to make you safer or prevent crime. It simply tells criminals you are an easy target and drives away good customers who have a handgun carry license.
As an Oklahoma Handgun License Holder, I ...
- Have no felony convictions (lifetime)
- Have never been convicted of any drug offense
- Have no mental defects or disabilities
- Have passed a criminal history background check.
How much do you know about your other customers?"
very excellent reasons. i like the last line, "How much do you know about your other customers?" pretty danged true!
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:55 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balota
It bothers me also when I see the no firearms signs in stores. We have a shooting range here in Tulsa (2A Shooting Center, if any are interested) that gives away business cards. Not much surprise there, but the cards have a fascinating message:

"Your 'no gun' sign prevents me from patronizing your business.
So I, my family, and other gun owners will spend our money with your competitors.
Look on the back to see why you should remove your sign.
No Guns = No Money"

The other side reads:

"Your 'no gun' sign is bad for business. It does nothing to make you safer or prevent crime. It simply tells criminals you are an easy target and drives away good customers who have a handgun carry license.
As an Oklahoma Handgun License Holder, I ...
- Have no felony convictions (lifetime)
- Have never been convicted of any drug offense
- Have no mental defects or disabilities
- Have passed a criminal history background check.
How much do you know about your other customers?"
I like that. Maybe when I get my CCW permit I'll have some business cards like made up and hand them out.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:58 PM   #187
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I'm not going to read 19 pages of the merits of open v conceal carry, it's been beaten to death a thousand times

This is a great legal update prepared by Mi State Police
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

www.miopencarry.org has done some amazing work in the state thanks to a couple of tireless efforts of a couple of members. Having said that, the organization takes a neutral position on LGOC, choosing to spend their time and effort on hand gun OC.

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Old 09-08-2013, 09:24 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balota
It bothers me also when I see the no firearms signs in stores. We have a shooting range here in Tulsa (2A Shooting Center, if any are interested) that gives away business cards. Not much surprise there, but the cards have a fascinating message:

"Your 'no gun' sign prevents me from patronizing your business.
So I, my family, and other gun owners will spend our money with your competitors.
Look on the back to see why you should remove your sign.
No Guns = No Money"

The other side reads:

"Your 'no gun' sign is bad for business. It does nothing to make you safer or prevent crime. It simply tells criminals you are an easy target and drives away good customers who have a handgun carry license.
As an Oklahoma Handgun License Holder, I ...
- Have no felony convictions (lifetime)
- Have never been convicted of any drug offense
- Have no mental defects or disabilities
- Have passed a criminal history background check.
How much do you know about your other customers?"

Most restaurants, grocery stores, pharmacies, hardware stores, etc. do NOT display such signs. But a few do, like Buffalo Wild Wings. Perhaps that's because they also have a section of their facility set up as a bar. Also, a lot of their business is people buying beers and margaritas and eating a little chicken while they're there. So, they may be borderline about whether more than half of their business is from selling food. That is the criteria for the restaurant exception to carrying where liquor is consumed.

Surprisingly, none of the liquor stores I've been in have a no gun sign. Shortly after OC was passed in OK, I carried into my regular liquor store. The manager, somewhat nervously, asked if I was allowed to carry in his store. I told him I was allowed to unless he said I wasn't. I told him that the law restricted open or concealed carry in places where liquor is consumed. You can't consume liquor in a liquor store. He was very relieved. I went home and printed out the pertinent section and took it back. We talked some more. His relief was from finding out that he did not need to ask armed customers to leave. He also appreciated getting a copy of the law. On a later visit, I saw him showing the page to a lady. I loitered until she left. He had been explaining to her that I had a right to carry in the store.
Could you mail me two of those cards. Please
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Old 09-09-2013, 04:49 AM   #189
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Could you mail me two of those cards. Please
Be glad to.
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Old 09-09-2013, 05:06 PM   #190
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...Should police investigate every time the circus comes to town because Orangello fears they might bring a bear? There is no right to bears.
Damn skippy they should and gun that bear down to!
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