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Old 09-05-2013, 04:06 AM   #101
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I think I will. If you are what passes for law enforcement now, we are in serious trouble.
Oh I had no doubts you would sir. No doubts at all. And such a relevant last word it was. Everything is crystal clear now.

Sorry hawkguy you're ignoring him and I keep quoting him so you have to read his stuff anyways. LOL! Ima stop now.
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:21 AM   #102
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Oh I had no doubts you would sir. No doubts at all. And such a relevant last word it was. Everything is crystal clear now.

Sorry hawkguy you're ignoring him and I keep quoting him so you have to read his stuff anyways. LOL! Ima stop now.
Now you're a liar too. You said I could have the last word.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:46 AM   #103
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I think some have lost the point here. Yes, open carry of long guns is legal in Texas. The statute says

"displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;"

The stated purpose of such open carry exercises is to "raise awareness" of the legality of open carry. This is absurd, IMHO, but none the less LEGAL.

If a person simply carries the long gun slung over the shoulder, it is impossible to establish it was done to cause alarm. They unsling it and "menace" others, yes an offense.

"Exercising" your rights is not a problem. "Flaunting" your rights gets problematic. It does not really do anything to perpetuate the right. It does cause people to call their legislators and ask for the law to be changed. Case in point; California's open cary of unloaded handguns is now illegal precicely because "activists" thought it a good idea to flaunt it. Does that seem like a good idea now?

I am a firm believer in CC. The BG's do not know who is armed so they have to be careful. Giving pause to the BG's reduces crime. A surprise injection of lead to the brain of a BG reduces crime even further.

IMHO the only way we can truly secure our 2nd Amendment rights is to exercise them to the fullest extent possible. The more people see others OC'ing the more they get used to it and hopefully it quits being such a big deal. That is primarily why I choose OC. I would never OC a long gun but only because I do not find it comfortable. Those that choose to that is their RIGHT and I will continue to support that right.


P.S. If I offended anyone in any of my previous posts I apologize that was not my intent. When a subject that I am passionate about comes up I sometimes get a little to intense about it.
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Old 09-05-2013, 07:47 AM   #104
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IMHO the only way we can truly secure our 2nd Amendment rights is to exercise them to the fullest extent possible. The more people see others OC'ing the more they get used to it and hopefully it quits being such a big deal. That is primarily why I choose OC. I would never OC a long gun but only because I do not find it comfortable. Those that choose to that is their RIGHT and I will continue to support that right.

P.S. If I offended anyone in any of my previous posts I apologize that was not my intent. When a subject that I am passionate about comes up I sometimes get a little to intense about it.
I support OC. I've said it here many times and I'll say it many times again. If you are going to open carry a handgun you need to buy a law enforcement model level III retention holster and get some weapons retention training. In this instance i'll add that you need to use common sense and not bring on an unnecessary confrontation for the sake of "displaying" your weapon to make a point. An open carrier with a level III holster, weapons retention training and plain old common sense can pretty much eliminate most of the arguments people like to throw at OCing.

In general most people ignore or don't notice OCers unless they purposefully draw attention to themselves and their weapons. If integrating the OC into society is your goal, the way to do it IMO is quietly. Like boiling a frog. Not by drawing as much attention to yourself as possible.
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Old 09-05-2013, 03:18 PM   #105
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I've been OCing with my IWB holster, getting my shirt tucked in behind it, leaving it clearly visible.

My cop buddy told me the other day that, depending on which cop I talk to, I could get charged with concealing without a permit. He also said I'd almost surely, 99% positively, beat it in court. Law states it has to be readily recognizable as a handgun. But it's not worth the hassle to me. And I've lost my Springfield holster that came with the gun

For the record, I use no retention holster at all. They're all friction. I have weapons retention training from my time in MPs...7 years ago.

I rely on situational awareness, and avoidance of crowded areas. I also live in a small town, and open carry is becoming way more prevalent this time of year, as people are scouting new hunting spots. Therefore, since snakes and whatnot are still out, people OC in the woods, and just leave it on their belts until they get home.

No one's ever called the cops on me or anyone else I've met who was open carrying. There are a few anti carry signs up at a couple businesses. They're ignored by both the people who carry, and the management of these businesses.

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Old 09-05-2013, 03:37 PM   #106
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The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

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Old 09-05-2013, 04:53 PM   #107
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We went through some in service training on this recently. We were shown an array of fully automatic weapons that were easily identified, and modifications to more common rifles like ak and ar that were easy to spot, how to check the trigger reset and verify whether the modifications were indeed fully auto etc. We were also shown some semi auto copycats of the fully auto weapons and what the differences were.

We were also told that in instances where there was a doubt that we could detain them on reasonable suspicion and they would dispatch a weapons expert to our location. We were told not to disarm them unless we had reasonable suspicion that the firearm was fully auto. And that "it looks scary" does not constitute reasonable suspicion.
But you have to actually handle the gun to determine if it is full auto. You need a lawful reason to remove the gun from the bearer's possession to do so.
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:59 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by trip286
I've been OCing with my IWB holster, getting my shirt tucked in behind it, leaving it clearly visible.

My cop buddy told me the other day that, depending on which cop I talk to, I could get charged with concealing without a permit. He also said I'd almost surely, 99% positively, beat it in court. Law states it has to be readily recognizable as a handgun. But it's not worth the hassle to me. And I've lost my Springfield holster that came with the gun

For the record, I use no retention holster at all. They're all friction. I have weapons retention training from my time in MPs...7 years ago.

I rely on situational awareness, and avoidance of crowded areas. I also live in a small town, and open carry is becoming way more prevalent this time of year, as people are scouting new hunting spots. Therefore, since snakes and whatnot are still out, people OC in the woods, and just leave it on their belts until they get home.

No one's ever called the cops on me or anyone else I've met who was open carrying. There are a few anti carry signs up at a couple businesses. They're ignored by both the people who carry, and the management of these businesses.
I've never heard of being arrested for concealing without a permit when the gun is clearly visible. But different state have different laws. Nobody would pull that crap where I live. Although technically a cop can "charge" you with anything. The judge has to approve the affidavits of probable cause, this happens the same day you're arrested, sometimes within hours. But by then you're in a holding cell and your day is ruined. But on the other hand you can sue the agency and the cop and never have to work again.

It doesn't surprise me that you carry a friction only holster. ;-) Not one bit. Actually most people I talk to say the same thing unless they've seen the video footage of cops with low retention holsters being knocked unconscious and shot dead with their own firearms. And a cop with high retention holsters getting knocked unconscious and the BG yanking on their gun and holster for at least a full 60 seconds and being unsuccessful.

Of course some people will go out on a limb and say that's only because they were police. But that's ignorant. If a self defense situation happens frequently to cops it will eventually happen to a CCP or OCer too.

When I'm in the woods I am not picky about my holster either. Unless I'm on an ATV in thick brush. And during hunting season a lot of guys go into the feed store and the hardware store open carrying. It would be bad juju for anybody acting stupid in there while all the hunters are sipping their coffee and shooting the breeze. That's part of life out in the sticks. I love it. Its why I still live there and drive 45 minute into town for work everyday. I'd agree with you if this is the only time you open carry that a friction only holster is probably all you need.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:20 PM   #109
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But you have to actually handle the gun to determine if it is full auto. You need a lawful reason to remove the gun from the bearer's possession to do so.
A very loose definition of reasonable suspicion is facts and circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to believe that X may have occurred based on the facts and totality of the circumstances.

Example: BG is wearing some of the same clothes in an area with a BOLO involving a robbery. We detain him on reasonable suspicion. He looks very similar to the BOLO. We can't prove its him yet and he doesnt event fit the description 100% but we're not gonna let him run off into the wild blue yonder. Any normal person would believe that this guy is probably the guy from the BOLO. Then his ID checks out and at the same time somebody else finds the real BOLO. BG isn't actually a BG so he walks free.

Example: This gun looks exactly like the gun I was shown in training that was fully auto. Any reasonable person would look at it and believe that it is the same gun. I cannot prove 100% that it is fully auto yet, but since this douche isn't presenting the proper identification required by federal law for carrying full auto, I'm not going to let him run off into the wild blue yonder either. So I'm detaining and disarming based on those facts. As soon as the weapon is verified as legal to posses, he gets it back and I roll out.

If I DON'T do this, and 3 hours later he opens fire on a school bus with a fully auto weapon and kills all the school kids, my department and I can be held liable. The parents will want to know why we talked to the guy and didnt take him to jail if he was carrying an illegal weapon. And they will ask. In court.

Do I personally care if he's carrying full auto? No. I think legally he should be able to carry a grenade launcher if he wants. But as much as I may personally despise this particular law, I didn't write it and can't do anything about it. I have to enforce it because its my job. This is how our lawyers and firearms experts told us to handle this particular instance if we ACTUALLY believe the weapon is fully auto based on our training and experience. This is pretty standard for the agencies in this area.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:27 PM   #110
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I've never heard of being arrested for concealing without a permit when the gun is clearly visible. But different state have different laws. Nobody would pull that crap where I live. Although technically a cop can "charge" you with anything. The judge has to approve the affidavits of probable cause, this happens the same day you're arrested, sometimes within hours. But by then you're in a holding cell and your day is ruined. But on the other hand you can sue the agency and the cop and never have to work again.

It doesn't surprise me that you carry a friction only holster. ;-) Not one bit. Actually most people I talk to say the same thing unless they've seen the video footage of cops with low retention holsters being knocked unconscious and shot dead with their own firearms. And a cop with high retention holsters getting knocked unconscious and the BG yanking on their gun and holster for at least a full 60 seconds and being unsuccessful.

Of course some people will go out on a limb and say that's only because they were police. But that's ignorant. If a self defense situation happens frequently to cops it will eventually happen to a CCP or OCer too.

When I'm in the woods I am not picky about my holster either. Unless I'm on an ATV in thick brush. And during hunting season a lot of guys go into the feed store and the hardware store open carrying. It would be bad juju for anybody acting stupid in there while all the hunters are sipping their coffee and shooting the breeze. That's part of life out in the sticks. I love it. Its why I still live there and drive 45 minute into town for work everyday. I'd agree with you if this is the only time you open carry that a friction only holster is probably all you need.
Come to West Monroe or any other area I frequent and see if you keep that opinion.
A more appropriate question concerning my carry habits would be "why do you carry at all?" Instead of my choice in holsters.

Ya know what?

Here they are. Put'em on and walk a mile.
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