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Old 09-26-2010, 07:09 PM   #11
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This is the way of the future in many jurisdictions. It is common here in SoCal, especially with the new breed of officers. They will do anything to get guns "off the street". Officers have been known to wait outside the shooting ranges waiting for people to leave. Then they pull them over to see if their guns are being transported in accordance with the law.

The EXACT same scenario happened to me, as happened to the guy in the OP, but I was arrested and charged. My guns were unloaded, in locked cases, vacuum sealed in plastic, and separated from the ammunition. All done above and beyond the letter of the law here in CA, but the officer lied on his arrest report.

My arresting officer falsified his police report, and only admitted it to the City Attorney under direct questioning. BUT she only agreed to ask him if he lied after I told her I wanted to go to trial, would spend whatever it cost to make it happen, that I would put the arresting officer on the stand under oath, and that I had a witness who could back up my claim. (And the fact that she knew, trusted and respected my attorney because they had worked together at the same firm years before). Luckily for me my witness was the LAPD Watch Commander at the Division where I was booked. If not for him backing me up they would have pushed for a 6 month sentence, $10,000 fine and confiscation of my guns. He was one of the old guard. And I was not willing to be intimidated into pleading guilty to any charges and giving up my right to a trial.

I presented the City Attorney with 30 letters of character and professional reference from active LAPD officers, retired LAPD officers, local PD officers, Federal Agents, prominent public figures and others. I presented her with my professional accreditations and history with law enforcement. None of it mattered to her.

It cost me over $4500 in legal fees, 18 months of drama, and eventually the case was thrown out. I even got my guns back, which NEVER happens in L.A.

But it would have been a different story if my witness had decided not to do the right thing and back me up.

It was pure intimidation from the start.

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Old 09-26-2010, 07:19 PM   #12
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Damn it is good to be in MS sometimes. To the best of my knowledge, i can legally transport a firearm in my car; of course, i don't know if every LEO stuck on traffic duty has that same understanding.

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Old 09-26-2010, 07:36 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by M14sRock View Post
It was pure intimidation from the start.
Unfortunately I find that this is the tactic most often employed by LEO's here in the northeast, especially in and around NYC. Lucky for me I realized that this is also the same tactic most often employed by cowards, I will not be intimidated.

I'm glad things worked out for you in the end. I doubt back in NY it would have gone that way. Hell, my own cousins husband, a retired NYPD asked me if it was legal to own an AR10 when I first got mine last year. I mean really, he did 20yrs on the job and has no idea what he's talking about. Yet it's perfectly alright for him to carry whenever he goes out even though he's no longer on the job.
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:27 PM   #14
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This is sad and I hope not indicative of Law Enforcement across the country!

What is the Safe Journey Act? I'll have to look that one up!

I am surprised that when advised that this individual was with the press that the LEOs didn't back off. They had to know this would get written up and that the guy would probably file suit (which if he hasn't contacted NRA or GOA, he should).

This type of harassment has to friggin end!!

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Old 09-26-2010, 09:28 PM   #15
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Unfortunately I find that this is the tactic most often employed by LEO's here in the northeast, especially in and around NYC. Lucky for me I realized that this is also the same tactic most often employed by cowards, I will not be intimidated.

I'm glad things worked out for you in the end. I doubt back in NY it would have gone that way. Hell, my own cousins husband, a retired NYPD asked me if it was legal to own an AR10 when I first got mine last year. I mean really, he did 20yrs on the job and has no idea what he's talking about. Yet it's perfectly alright for him to carry whenever he goes out even though he's no longer on the job.
If I was in NY (or anywhere else) I would have followed the NY laws, just as I was following L.A.'s laws. I was pulled over randomly, and cooperated fully.

I was NOT in violation of any laws, and when confronted with the proof (and his own admission) that the arresting officer falsified his report to say that I WAS (in violation) the City Attorney chose the prudent path and dropped all charges. She knew I was not intimidated, and intended to spend $100,000 in my defense if need be. But mainly I think it was my insistence that I would have both the arresting officer (and his partner) called to the witness stand, along with the Watch Commander who saw what happened and was willing to verify my story. And maybe the other officers present as well as the jailers who booked me and thought it was all BS.

I also explained to her in no uncertain terms that immediately after I was found not-guilty, I would be filing false arrest charges, police brutality charges (the handcuffs were put on me so tightly that I had cuts all the way around my wrists on both hands, (to the bone in one place), even though I was 100% compliant) as well as conspiracy charges because of the number of officers and City Officials who knew the truth but still urged prosecution.

I must say, the most satisfying part of this was getting my guns back. I walked in to the LAPD Division and the OOD (nice guy) asked me if he could help me. It told him I was there to pick up my guns and he started laughing. I showed him my court order for the release of the guns and he said, "Man I want to see this!" So he walked me back to the property room where the property manager told me "We DON'T give guns back!", and I replied to him "THIS time you do!" and gave him the court order. He had never seen one, and had to call the judge to verify it. Priceless. But then I had him and the Officer accompany me out to my car where I put the guns, and ammo, right back where they had been when I was arrested. Then I waved to them, and drove off.

But what would have happened if I had not had the financial ability to hire a good attorney? Or had lost my cool and been charged with some trumped up charge? Or buckled to their intimidation and pled down to some lesser charge instead of fighting it?

And, if "ignorance of the law is no excuse", why doesn't that apply to officers who arrest or intimidate people like the guy in the OP? When they are the ones who are "ignorant of the law" they should pay a price.
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:43 AM   #16
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This is sad and I hope not indicative of Law Enforcement across the country!

What is the Safe Journey Act? I'll have to look that one up!

I am surprised that when advised that this individual was with the press that the LEOs didn't back off. They had to know this would get written up and that the guy would probably file suit (which if he hasn't contacted NRA or GOA, he should).

This type of harassment has to friggin end!!
I'm not all that sure about the Safe Journey Act....

More and more I'm hearing about more LEO acting like this guy did In Ohio where I lived (Cincinnati) LEO will about call out a SWAT team if you have a weapon with you. I have a friend still there that their only real reason for getting a carry permit was because she was getting shook down many times when leaving the range. She would get told that it is considered concealed having a weapon in your vehicle, even in the trunk. Some friends here in Ky. that live in more populated areas say they're starting to see it more now. LEO have enough to do as it is. I just don't see a need to look for more trouble to get in. I've always respected LEO for the job they do but it's getting harder when this kind of stuff is going on.
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:41 AM   #17
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Default Wtf !!!

If anyone was breaking the law it was those dumb ass cops ! Usually the southern states are pretty liberal about firearms but if you were going through a small town that was the problem. Many small town depts. north and south are on a power trip and don't necessarily abide by state rules. If I were you I'd get a lawyer and fight this injustice ! You haven't done anything wrong. Call the NRA, they will help you and represent you if and when you take it to court.
You'll get your firearms back too . Stories like this make me sick ! The laws need to be changed for legal citizens who want to own and carry guns.
Good Luck my friend, I hope you can get your firearms back !

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Old 09-27-2010, 05:05 AM   #18
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I am amazed at the restraint he exercised! It would have been my luck to run into a couple of morons like that. I've never run across an unprofessional police officer before and I have dealt with alot of them but just like any vocation I am sure they are out there. I echo a previous poster who stated that it would be prudent to have a hard copy of the gunlaws to point out to a potential goober if the need arises. What else can you do?...going ballistic is definitely out. All of the LEO I know are adamantly pro-gun and would never behave that way. A true professional would know and understand the law. These guys weren't it.

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Old 09-27-2010, 05:23 AM   #19
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Can you please elaborate on the safe journey act? I've searched for it and come up with nothing.

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Old 09-27-2010, 06:07 AM   #20
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From the book, "Traveler's Guide to Firearms Laws in the Fifty States"...for Tennessee :

Firearms Ownership : , unrestricted, no permit or license required

Black Rifle Ownership ("Assault" Rifle) : unrestricted, no permit or license required

Machine Gun ownership : no state restriction, compliance with federal laws only

Firearm law uniformity : preemption law, cities prohibited from creating new laws

Right of Self Defense : castle doctrine, right protected by statute

Open Carry : prohibited unless one possesses a permit to carry a handgun

Concealed Carry : licenses granted on a "shall issue" basis; automatic recognition for non-residents with carry permits from ANY other state

Vehicle Carry & Transportation : firearms must be unloaded and in plain view or secured in commercial gun cases anywhere in the vehicle


If the victim truly transported firearms as described, the officer was clearly in violation of the Tennessee state laws. I do not buy into any story that the officer was ignorant of the laws...he knew them, just didn't give a damn and was out to pursue an agenda.


He lied about the Tennessee state firearms laws

He lied about his dog identifying on drugs in the car, in order to effect a search


The whole notion of "probable cause" in this country is becoming a joke, as time and time again, police are demonstrating the willingness to fabricate any blatant lie they have to in order to stop or search a vehicle.

I also want to say this...all of that discussion of having been to the Second Amendment Rally, etc. etc. - TMI - shut up !!
When stopped, ANYTHING you let pass your lips is just more information a cop will use AGAINST you...NOT to your benefit.


There should have only been 3 things this person should engage in discusion :

Why have you stopped me?

Am I being detained? If so, why?

Am I under arrest? If not, then may we go?
No? Go back to number two and repeat...are we being detained, and why.



It was smart to carry copies of the receipt of ownership. Some States are using this as a reason to confiscate guns, if you cannot show a receipt - it is still illegal behavior for tehm to take it, but some are doing it.

There is getting to be a more fine line between the police and the crooks and thugs...and the punks in black robes back at the court house don't help either.

I remember a time when we had Peace Officers...now we have Law Enforcement Officers. Surely there are still some reputable, honest officers out there, but over the last 15 years or so there has been ever increasing "Us Against Them" (the public) attitudes from officers and militarization of police forces.

It is not good to read stories of law abiding citizens being harrassed and theft by officials being committed.


On the 1100 rounds of ammo in the trunk. Yes, I know technically that was not illegal. BUT...I think that is an amount of ammo that will surely draw negative attention to you. Let's be realistic folks...what trouble was this person going to get into that would warrant 1100 rounds of ammo??

And when questioned about it...all of the talk about possibly needing that much to defend himself at the Second Amendment Rally and aiding police officers during some potential catastrophe - again, TMI, shut up ! NOT necessary to dig yourself a hole with all of this additional discussion. I'm sure all of that rhetoric just made him sound like the "gun nut" the biased media portrays gun owners to be.


He should pursue this legally and get this resolved. The sad part about it is even if he wins, these bad cops just go about their business with no reprimand, and the court will insult him by making him pay court cost. With bad law enforcement like this, this crap would change if when a citizen won, their legal fees had to be fully reimbursed by the state and NO court cost paid. Even if you win, you are punished financially by the system for doing nothing wrong.

The Justice System in this country has become less about justice and more about the system.


Regards,

Swampbilly

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