[therewolf]

A liberal is just a conservative who hasn't been

mugged yet...

[Balota]

Originally Posted by rebelcowboy

That's alot and go figure the deterrent is a Lac carry but the libs think we r a high risk gee libs have no sense of safety for others

Exactly. One of the other very interesting stats is about the "Halo" effect. To quote Mr. Lott "Citizens who have no intention of ever carrying concealed handguns in a sense get a "free ride" from the crime-fighting efforts of their fellow citizens." And, "Murder rates decline when either more women or more men carry concealed handguns, but the effect is especially pronounced for women. An additional woman carrying a concealed handgun reduces the murder rate for women by about 3 to 4 times more than an additional man carrying a concealed handgun reduces the murder rate for men."

[rebelcowboy]

Originally Posted by Balota

Exactly. One of the other very interesting stats is about the "Halo" effect. To quote Mr. Lott "Citizens who have no intention of ever carrying concealed handguns in a sense get a "free ride" from the crime-fighting efforts of their fellow citizens." And, "Murder rates decline when either more women or more men carry concealed handguns, but the effect is especially pronounced for women. An additional woman carrying a concealed handgun reduces the murder rate for women by about 3 to 4 times more than an additional man carrying a concealed handgun reduces the murder rate for men."

You make a very good point and things seem to have more people getting guns now days

[Old_Crow]

No book or government agencies can keep up with the number of times a gun stopped a crime without firing a shot. Many times the attempted crime isn't reported. Most of us just want to get on with our life, not spend an hour filling out police reports for something that didn't happen. Personally, I wouldn't call the police if I just pulled my gun and the bad guy ran off. I am not good with faces. If I saw the BG in a line up I wouldn't recognize him. Why should I waste an officer's time?

[AIKIJUTSU]

Originally Posted by Old_Crow

No book or government agencies can keep up with the number of times a gun stopped a crime without firing a shot. Many times the attempted crime isn't reported. Most of us just want to get on with our life, not spend an hour filling out police reports for something that didn't happen. Personally, I wouldn't call the police if I just pulled my gun and the bad guy ran off. I am not good with faces. If I saw the BG in a line up I wouldn't recognize him. Why should I waste an officer's time?

Amen. I have drawn a gun several times in my 73 years, and it literally saved my life when I did. But to file a police report can get your gun confiscated, it can get you arrested for brandishing a firearm, and can result in your ccw being taken away.

[25-5]

It is good to remember that the police are the prosecutors friend not yours.

[therewolf]

IMO, the most important statistics are the ones provided regularly by the

FBI, which show violent crime dropping steadily.

At a watershed time of shall-issue, no less.

[Balota]

Originally Posted by therewolf

IMO, the most important statistics are the ones provided regularly by the

FBI, which show violent crime dropping steadily.

At a watershed time of shall-issue, no less.

Just to clarify, Lott's book is based on the entire (repeat, ENTIRE) FBI statistical database as of the publication of his paper. He has had to defend the results against claims made by Gun Control Inc. which claim opposite results. The Gun Control Inc. results are based on a very carefully selected subset of that database. The subset is so small that no realistic conclusion of (mathematically) statistical significance can be made.

At the time of Lott's paper and book, about 33 states had shall issue CCW laws. His paper covered a period where several of these states had recently passed CCW shall issue legislation. He was able to demonstrate in the statistics for each of those states that the same pattern occurred. First, CCW shall issue was passed. Second, a large number of LACs obtained such permits. Third, when the number of LACs carrying CCW increased by a significant amount, the crime rates went down. This pattern did not occur once in a while, or some of the time. Not even most of the time. The pattern occurred EVERY time.

Like I said in an earlier post ... Add Mr. Lott to your list of superheroes!!! And get a copy of his book!

[Balota]

Originally Posted by 25-5

It is good to remember that the police are the prosecutors friend not yours.

That's true. As the saying goes "When seconds count, help is only minutes away!"

As a practical matter, if you are forced to draw your weapon and stop a BG permanently, you have committed a homicide. The police are required to investigate such an occurrence. They should be able to conclude that the event was justifiable. But political climates may change their conclusions. Even if they conclude the event was justifiable, civil claims from the family of the deceased may drag you back into the fray. As the Zimmerman situation has illustrated, the prosecutors may come to a different conclusion than the police.

You must be prepared to defend yourself from the aftermath as well. To that end, make sure you have a lawyer and have his number in your cell phone. During those minutes waiting for the police to arrive, if circumstances allow, you should contact your lawyer to get things rolling on your side. Otherwise, be sure to get your lawyer involved with your permitted phone call. The point is, have a lawyer of your own, not just the court appointed hack.

You can probably make a statement that you were defending yourself or others when the police arrive. That should be obvious to all concerned anyway. You should under no circumstances resist police actions to restrain or detain you. They are almost certain to do so under the circumstances.

If detained, you should decline to make any statements other than "No I do not consent to any further searches.", "No I do not understand or waive any of my rights." and "No I do not want to answer any questions without my lawyer."

All of the above is just my opinion, but it is based on a number of published articles and books on the subject. I'm not a LEO or an ex-LEO, just an interested LAC who reads a lot. Use as your own risk, YMMV.

[rebelcowboy]

Originally Posted by Balota

That's true. As the saying goes "When seconds count, help is only minutes away!"

As a practical matter, if you are forced to draw your weapon and stop a BG permanently, you have committed a homicide. The police are required to investigate such an occurrence. They should be able to conclude that the event was justifiable. But political climates may change their conclusions. Even if they conclude the event was justifiable, civil claims from the family of the deceased may drag you back into the fray. As the Zimmerman situation has illustrated, the prosecutors may come to a different conclusion than the police.

You must be prepared to defend yourself from the aftermath as well. To that end, make sure you have a lawyer and have his number in your cell phone. During those minutes waiting for the police to arrive, if circumstances allow, you should contact your lawyer to get things rolling on your side. Otherwise, be sure to get your lawyer involved with your permitted phone call. The point is, have a lawyer of your own, not just the court appointed hack.

You can probably make a statement that you were defending yourself or others when the police arrive. That should be obvious to all concerned anyway. You should under no circumstances resist police actions to restrain or detain you. They are almost certain to do so under the circumstances.

If detained, you should decline to make any statements other than "No I do not consent to any further searches.", "No I do not understand or waive any of my rights." and "No I do not want to answer any questions without my lawyer."

All of the above is just my opinion, but it is based on a number of published articles and books on the subject. I'm not a LEO or an ex-LEO, just an interested LAC who reads a lot. Use as your own risk, YMMV.

You are very right I have a friend that's ex Leo and he says the basic things as what you just said and the worse part is the family members that try to come after you in court or come to try and kill you unlawfully it is a royal pain the way I understand it