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Old 05-03-2012, 02:12 PM   #11
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Prison interviews with criminals who stated they were afraid of

LACs with CCWs for two main reasons:

1. They aren't uniformed, or marked in any way, as

police are.

2. They pop up anywhere, and don't have any police

restraints. Many (and rightly so, IMO) fear being shot in the back.

Many others are afraid of their sudden death or permanent injury,

without the benefit of the rather slack treatment of our justice system-

style jurisprudence...


...were a major contributor toward my decision to get a CCW Permit.

Now, instead of my loved ones and myself sweating about who's got

a gun around the next corner, the BGs can worry about it.

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Old 05-03-2012, 02:51 PM   #12
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ALRIGHT! This link leads to a reference for John Lott's book "More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun-Control Laws". The most direct statistic quoted in the writeup about the book is this: In 1993, police killed 330 innocent people. In the same time frame, private citizens killed 30 innocent people. Not trying to bash LEOs, they have a lot more encounters than the private citizens. But the point is that armed private citizens are NOT an increased risk to society.

There were two reviews of this book. One is full of praise for someone doing a good job of presenting detailed statistical analysis in a way that laypeople can understand. The other (by a Massachusetts liberal economist) seeks to discredit the work. Both reviews encourage me that this book may be a good starting point for the statistics that I'm interested in!

I plan to get this book and I'll let you know what other nuggets are buried in "them thar hills".
Keep me posted...funny, I saw this thread while doing research of my own...Local news asshats put up a new stat of how prescription pills were the new #1 cause of unnatural death (I think it was "unnatural", maybe premature but whatever). Pill OD's were #1 at 34k, auto accidents #2 at 33k and gun deaths #3 at 32k...my BS radar was going off like crazy.

I love how they leave out the fact that 17k of the gun deaths were suicides, also omitting police involved shootings and LAC (justified) shootings (roughly another 2k) which got me to wondering about gang related shootings...NOTHING, NADA ZIP ZILCH on those stats. Not on any gov't site or anywhere in between could I find any reliable...or just ANY for that matter about gang shootings. Scratching head and wondering why

Are these #'s just not kept? Are they impossible to track? Are they being held for some reason? Out of the roughly 13k shootings per year, how many are gang related??? The number HAS to be significant!!! This is where I ran into dead ends... I want to know so if you can find any on that I'd be very interested to hear what you come up with!
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:31 PM   #13
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Keep me posted...funny, I saw this thread while doing research of my own...Local news asshats put up a new stat of how prescription pills were the new #1 cause of unnatural death (I think it was "unnatural", maybe premature but whatever). Pill OD's were #1 at 34k, auto accidents #2 at 33k and gun deaths #3 at 32k...my BS radar was going off like crazy.

I love how they leave out the fact that 17k of the gun deaths were suicides, also omitting police involved shootings and LAC (justified) shootings (roughly another 2k) which got me to wondering about gang related shootings...NOTHING, NADA ZIP ZILCH on those stats. Not on any gov't site or anywhere in between could I find any reliable...or just ANY for that matter about gang shootings. Scratching head and wondering why

Are these #'s just not kept? Are they impossible to track? Are they being held for some reason? Out of the roughly 13k shootings per year, how many are gang related??? The number HAS to be significant!!! This is where I ran into dead ends... I want to know so if you can find any on that I'd be very interested to hear what you come up with!
They distort gun statistics:

If you break your leg falling off a ladder, and you own a

gun, that's a "gun-related injury" for instance.
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:50 AM   #14
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Therewolf is right they distort those stats very badly to the point of they actually put them under other stats so they can say the crime rate has dropped I can't remember the exact state but it is extremely high due to the fact the r told to file it differently

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Old 05-04-2012, 01:48 PM   #15
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They distort gun statistics:

If you break your leg falling off a ladder, and you own a

gun, that's a "gun-related injury" for instance.
Well yeah, hence the 17k in suicides being included "gun deaths"...it's a given that the deck is stacked. What I want is answers to the lefty libbys who are claiming blood is running through the streets by hyping these "stats"...show me the numbers.

I understand there are lies, damn lies and statistics but when folks create a random number of "victims"...then lets's see exactly WHO these "victims" are...From my best guess, I've got 10k "victims" unaccounted for and are seemingly non-existent....(cuz they probably are...)
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:17 PM   #16
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While debating statistics is fine,

perhaps we should gather our power

at the same time.

Here's some statistics for you:

Percentage of American population which

own guns: 45%( That's over 140 MILLION gun owners)

Total enrollment in NRA: 6 million- so approximately 1 in 24 gun owners

carry the water for the rest, who are too apathetic

or lazy to get involved.

Total voting population (actual voters who voted): 129,391,711.

IF we were to get our gun owning population to vote

unilaterally, we would have @12 MILLION MORE VOTES

THAN THE TOTAL VOTES OF BOTH MAJOR POLITICAL PARTIES

IN THE 2008 ELECTION


IF we could unify, statistics would be moot.

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Old 05-04-2012, 02:20 PM   #17
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Great post Therewolf!!

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Old 05-23-2012, 03:31 AM   #18
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ALRIGHT! This link leads to a reference for John Lott's book "More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun-Control Laws". ... I plan to get this book and I'll let you know what other nuggets are buried in "them thar hills".
OK. Add Mr. Lott to your list of superheroes!!! He has somehow managed to translate the essential results of a huge academic treatise of mind-numbing statistics (his original paper) into about 160 pages of readable, understandable literature. He supports all of his common-sensical claims with valid statistical backup.

I didn't find a direct equivalent to my ITIB statistic, but Lott still manages to prove the point: armed LACs are not an increased risk to society. In fact, the existence of armed LACs creates a deterrent to violent crime. And that deterrent effect winds up benefiting unarmed LACs as well. Along the way, he also provides real world examples of the general patterns found in his study. The book is well worth the $5-$10 price tag, buying used from Amazon.

The key point of the book is that statistical reductions in violent crime are directly related to the number of CCW permits. There are small (statistically insignificant) increases in accidents with handguns when more LACs are armed. But the reductions in murders alone (in the thousands) are many times greater than the accidents (in the dozens).

What I called ITIBs by LACs would fall in his category of accidental handgun injuries or deaths. His statistics show that accidental handgun deaths are a small fraction of all accidental deaths. He also shows that accidental handgun deaths in CCW counties are much lower than in non-CCW counties. That seems to suggest that handguns in the hands of CCW permit holders are handled a little more carefully. Could be a little more training? A little more sense of responsibility? Who knows?

Ironically, although support for gun control legislation is generally greatest in urban areas, the areas that benefit most from CCW permits are urban areas with low incomes and high population densities. The deterrent effect of CCW permits is applied to a much larger criminal base and produces the largest reductions in violent crime.
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Old 05-23-2012, 04:00 AM   #19
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What I want is answers to the lefty libbys who are claiming blood is running through the streets by hyping these "stats"...show me the numbers.

I understand there are lies, damn lies and statistics but when folks create a random number of "victims"...then lets's see exactly WHO these "victims" are ...
There's lots of numbers in Lott's book. Here's a few. "When state CCW laws went into effect in a county, murders fell by about 8%, rapes fell by 5%, and aggravated assaults fell by 7%. (That's after adjusting for trends in the crime rates and other non-CCW factors. That's the percentage attributable to CCW alone!) In 1992, there were 18,469 murders, 79,272 rapes ... and 861,103 aggravated assaults (total) in counties (across the US) without CCW (shall issue). The statistical study suggests that if these counties had been subject to CCW (shall issue), murders would have been reduced by about 1,400, ... rapes reduced by 4,200 and aggravated assaults by 60,000 ..." That would be the benefit in one year!

While he was at it, he was able to make rough estimates of dollar values associated with these reductions. How does $5.7 BILLION in 1992 dollars strike you as a number?
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:10 PM   #20
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That's alot and go figure the deterrent is a Lac carry but the libs think we r a high risk gee libs have no sense of safety for others

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