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Old 07-18-2013, 03:22 PM   #71
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What if..... 2am and I hear someone breaking into my car in the driveway of my home. I don't advocate deadly force for a simple property crime, but can I confront the BG with weapon drawn and order him to leave? Furthermore can I use self defense if BG decides to attack me or would I be the instigator of the confrontation? Also I live in a castle doctrine/SYG state.

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Old 07-18-2013, 03:25 PM   #72
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What if..... 2am and I hear someone breaking into my car in the driveway of my home. I don't advocate deadly force for a simple property crime, but can I confront the BG with weapon drawn and order him to leave? Furthermore can I use self defense if BG decides to attack me or would I be the instigator of the confrontation? Also I live in a castle doctrine/SYG state.
When I went through my class here in OK, were told that property crime does not constitute a self defense situation. So if I were to do as you say, and things go south, I could be charged with manslaughter or murder for being the agressor. In this situation, best to call PD and let them handle it. Nothing I own is worth that. Only my family and my life.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:00 PM   #73
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I am concerned about something and perhaps someone can clarify for me.

As I understand, the "Stand Your Ground" legislation in FL is now under attack. I read an article that postulated about the potential for lost of Castle Doctrine in states supporting it, should the SYG law be struck down.

Is this even remotely possible?

Now, couple that with the resident's renewed push for gun control, I can see many socialists rubbing their hands together gleefully.

Thoughts?
Stand your ground was under attack long before Zimmerman ever went to trial. The Governor formed a committee to look into it, protests were marched, and public hearings were held. SYG stands up as written. The committee found that it is a good law.

Now, are you ready for the funny part? As explained to me by a friend at my local state attorney's office... hold onto your hat... are you ready...

Florida vs George Zimmerman was never a Stand Your Ground case.

I didn't believe it, so I confirmed it with a neighbor who is an elected State Attorney that works in another district. He confirmed this. There was absolutely no stand your ground argument available to Zimmerman. Would you like to know why?

As it was explained to me SYG removes your duty to retreat. Fine, I already knew that. George Zimmerman was pinned on the ground and getting his brains beat in. At the time the shot was fired George Zimmerman had no avenue of retreat so SYG couldn't apply. Zimmerman was a clear cut self defense shooting.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:12 PM   #74
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What if..... 2am and I hear someone breaking into my car in the driveway of my home. I don't advocate deadly force for a simple property crime, but can I confront the BG with weapon drawn and order him to leave? Furthermore can I use self defense if BG decides to attack me or would I be the instigator of the confrontation? Also I live in a castle doctrine/SYG state.
Great question and a huge problem. We have been neutered to the point where we are the perpetrators while defending ours(self/family) and our property. This notion makes me ill and extremely vulnerable.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:29 PM   #75
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In FL you can't bully someone without risking great bodily harm. In time Fl will have a polite society. We don't need a society where bullies can rough up the weak and the only recourse the weak have is officer please help me. I am sure Jorge Saavedra told his teachers, bus driver and others before he resorted to bringing a knife for self defense.

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Old 07-18-2013, 05:36 PM   #76
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Great question and a huge problem. We have been neutered to the point where we are the perpetrators while defending ours(self/family) and our property. This notion makes me ill and extremely vulnerable.
The philosophy behind this is simply that life is more valuable than property.
Your car can be replaced. A life cannot.

So whether or not you should have the right to kill someone to protect property depends on your own moral philosophy, and your zeal, or lack thereof, in letting your legislators know which side of the question you support.

I am not aware of any state that allows use of deadly force to protect property, but I could be mistaken.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:37 PM   #77
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What if..... 2am and I hear someone breaking into my car in the driveway of my home. I don't advocate deadly force for a simple property crime, but can I confront the BG with weapon drawn and order him to leave? Furthermore can I use self defense if BG decides to attack me or would I be the instigator of the confrontation? Also I live in a castle doctrine/SYG state.
I don't know what state you live in, so don't count on this answer being correct without checking your local statues. Here in Florida SYG will cover if:

1. You are not in the process of committing a crime

2. You are someplace that you have a legal right to be

Your deadly force laws will also apply in this scenario. Please, be very careful about using deadly force to protect property outside your home. Taking the life of another is something a well adjusted person will never get over. To take that life over something that can be replaced is that much worse.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:51 PM   #78
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I'm not advocating deadly force on property crimes, however confrontation can lead to many scenarios with a host of ramifications. Defense can quickly become offense and vice versa.

So we are to let the crime take place and wait for LE to show up? This is how my state stands and where the neutered comment comes into play.

This garbage means open season on LAC for break-ins to out buildings, car theft, vandalism and even self defense out of your home.

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Old 07-18-2013, 07:12 PM   #79
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Judgement is the crux of this whole topic. In Florida, if you are legally where you are supposed to be at that time, you have the right to Stand Your Ground and defend yourself up to and including the use of deadly force if you are in fear for your life or the life or lives of innocent people. There's nothing in the law that gives you the right to kill somebody who's stealing your car.

The ability to judge in an instant the level of your response to a threat is something that can only be acquired through training, even if that training is running scenarios in your mind.

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Old 07-18-2013, 07:14 PM   #80
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Judgement is the crux of this whole topic. In Florida, if you are legally where you are supposed to be at that time, you have the right to Stand Your Ground and defend yourself up to and including the use of deadly force if you are in fear for your life or the life or lives of innocent people. There's nothing in the law that gives you the right to kill somebody who's stealing your car.

The ability to judge in an instant the level of your response to a threat is something that can only be acquired through training, even if that training is running scenarios in your mind.
Well said.
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