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Old 07-18-2013, 04:18 AM   #61
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But, logically, wouldn't repeal of this law actually have the opposite result?
Most likely.

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SYG laws are not going to matter if a victim is ambushed, right? If you don't see an attack coming then SYG is irrelevant. It matters for frontal attacks or attacks where the criminal is somehow visible and there is time to react.
Correct.

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If one also assumes that SYG laws require that an assailant has initiated a serious, life-threatening and visible assault (that seems obvious) then I think one can also conclude, for argument's sake, that:

1. Unless the assailant is profoundly stupid, he believes that he can overpower, possibly kill, the victim.

2. It is therefore likely that the threatening assailant is larger or has a weapon. Or is on drugs.

If those assumptions are true (and I think they are valid though, obviously, not necessarily true), then diluting the victim's choices about how to best defend himself cannot help but increase the number of successful attacks.
That would be correct as well.

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Since your statistics show that most victims are white, a good argument can be made that repeal of SYG would have a discriminatory effect because it would reduce the options open to a victim to best defend himself and that would impact white people more than black people.
Liberals do not see whites as victims, even when they are/were victimized.

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It's a stupid argument either way, IMO, because black victims are important, too....but maybe it does show how moronic liberal "thinking" is on the issue.

I think the MSM needs to bear in mind that SYG laws do not require a person to plant both feet and pull out a gun. Leaving or backing away is still a valid option and that fact seems to be intentionally left out of the debate by those who just don't like guns and don't really care who pays for their intolerance.
You are correct on all counts. However, as I stated before, you can not use logic when dealing with Liberals. They don't use it. They use fear, emotions, and anything that is not logical reasoning.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:01 AM   #62
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What Holder wants to do is turn the United States into United Kingdom. If you defend yourself, you are punished and not the criminal.

You see the United Kingdom, that will be the future of the United States.

He does not want citizens to defend themselves; but, to retreat and retreat and finally just give in.

What he is doing is not going after self defense; but, more towards the destruction of the 2nd Amendment and all civil liberties.

Pretty much sums it up.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:22 AM   #63
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What we have as leaders of our nation, is a bunch of hypocrites, they run around with armed guards, who have no duty to retreat.

As usual, they use a double standard, when it comes to the right to self-defense, just as they do when it comes to health care, insider trading, violating civil liberties.........etc., etc., etc.

This is not unique to this administration, only the degree to which they see themselves above our laws and the rights of other citizens.

I feel no duty to run & hide, when my life is threatened, and no law will change that. It is morally, constitutionally guaranteed and wholly ethical to stand and defend one's life and loved ones.

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Old 07-18-2013, 12:40 PM   #64
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What we have as leaders of our nation, is a bunch of hypocrites, they run around with armed guards, who have no duty to retreat.

As usual, they use a double standard, when it comes to the right to self-defense, just as they do when it comes to health care, insider trading, violating civil liberties.........etc., etc., etc.

This is not unique to this administration, only the degree to which they see themselves above our laws and the rights of other citizens.

I feel no duty to run & hide, when my life is threatened, and no law will change that. It is morally, constitutionally guaranteed and wholly ethical to stand and defend one's life and loved ones.
What they are is CAREER CRIMINALS who have spent most of their lives hobnobbing with organizations that advocate the overthrow of the United States.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:05 PM   #65
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The irony here is that stats from FL show that AA used the SYG law more and more successfully than whites. More facts and reality the progressive ignore in an attempt to gain more 'control' of their 'subjects'!!!

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Old 07-18-2013, 01:09 PM   #66
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Trespassing is another issue altogether. Varies from state to state. But generally unrelated to SYG.

Here, if a person is on your property, with your knowledge, uninvited, and you do not ask him to leave, you have given tacit approval to his presence and he is not trespassing.

If the land is posted "No Trespassing" and a person is there without your active approval, he is in trespass. You do not need to ask him to leave for him to be legally in trespass.

But trespassing alone is a misdemeanor, and does not justify use of force. you call the sheriff.

Of course, if he's trespassing for the purpose of rustling your cattle, that's a different story.
So I take it in WY there are not provisions in the law for lawful citizens arrests???
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:44 PM   #67
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Default Map with your states law.

http://www.readyholster.com/blog/stand-your-ground-gun-laws-infographic
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:38 PM   #68
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So I take it in WY there are not provisions in the law for lawful citizens arrests???
We do provide for lawful citizen's arrest. I think every state does. But only for felony crimes.

I am not aware of any place where a citizen can use force to effect a "citizen's arrest" for a misdemeanor.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:46 PM   #69
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Of course, if he's trespassing for the purpose of rustling your cattle, that's a different story
In 1978 or 79 a rancher near Cache, OK and his son investigated a cattle truck backed up to his cattle loading chute. The rustlers fired on the rancher: Wrong answer!!! All four rustlers were killed. The sheriff refused to arrest the rancher and the prosecutor refused to indict him; end of story.
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:17 PM   #70
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The 'stand your ground' law and the 'castle doctrine' are laws passed in SUPPORT of victims of crimes to assist them in their 'fight' on the street and in the courtroom. Anyone who opposes these laws are supporting the criminal element in our society and opposing those who are victims. Dirt simple!!!
100% in agreement with this statement right here.People are ignorant of the "Castle Doctrine" and of how the law reads as far as SYG stands.They refuse to read the law to understand exactly what it says and rely on word of mouth from other liberals .There was a guy I knew from a long time back on FB stating how he was upset with the verdict and that with Florida having "The Castle Doctrine"that anyone coming down here to Florida ought to be careful and not even tap someone on the shoulder for fear of getting shot.That right there made me mad so I posted that he should read the law where to find it and that the "Castle Doctrine" had absolutely nothing to do with the Zimmerman case.I also asked him kindly to research before he posted those kind of ignorant remarks.However "Facebook"decided that the truth was too much and pulled my post.Extremely pissed .
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