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Old 11-09-2010, 12:40 AM   #51
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the Articles of Confederation, which had been dropped because the central government that sprang from it was too weak, how the acrimony that existed between state governments and the nascent central government -- out of a longstanding distrust of a strong central government -
Ah for the good ole days without the Federal Govemonster.
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:37 AM   #52
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bkt,

I did not mean any insult and would not want others reading our debate to read it as such.

As pointed out in an earlier post, the 2A has been incorporated against the state and local governments in the MacDonald v. Chicago and 9th Circuit Court ruling. This ruling has already reverberated through many of our local governments and their police agencies, causing many to temporarily stop some of their activities that infringe on our 2A. But again as was mentioned, this ruling has not played itself out through all the potential legal twists and turns.

WE need to be unified on this issue, rather than trying to show our individual knowledge. We shouldn't act like lawyers. Don't be your own worst enemy - Stand together for your 2A rights. Let's claim the 2A as our inalienable right and not let it be taken away in these twists and turns that will surely come!
Fair enough. You're relatively new around here and don't know me from Adam. Let's just say my understanding of my natural right to defend myself, my family, neighbors, property, etc. is extremely ingrained in me. I most certainly do appreciate 2A and while I can't say I'm too thrilled with 14A or incorporation in general, I'll take what I can get. And if recent decisions nullify local laws, then good! In that regard, we're unified.

But that doesn't mean we can't discuss the history of the BoR. The truth around it doesn't negate your argument that freedom to keep and bear arms should not be infringed by any government.
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Old 11-09-2010, 01:11 PM   #53
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Question When Did California's Gun Laws Go South ?

What year did California's gun laws diminish for it's citizens like this ?
My dad is 79 years old and he said that CA. had some of the most free gun laws for it's citizens, you pretty much bought and did what you want. {Lawfully} Now what it seems that CA is actually worse than NJ !
When did all this take place, or was it a little here, a little there ?
This is a damn shame for the citizens out there even for a mere collector.
No Hi-Cap magazines, no assault rifles, restrictions on certain design and what else ? That's the one's I know of is there more ? Can you guys have laser sights ? The assault ban and magazine ban is from Clinton but Bush Jr. lifted that ban when he was elected. Did the CA state government keep the ban in tact ? What happened there please someone tell me ?

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Old 11-09-2010, 04:34 PM   #54
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As I understand it the main problem in Californy is a lack of voter support for gun rights. Apparently most of the cali gun owners don't feel the need to get into "the closet" (voting booth). Even sending a gun into Cali now (by an FFL) involves a hassle as I must first check the list that the Cali Dept Of (in)Justice has drawn up, which forbids many handguns & rifles the rest of the free country may legally own. After checking that the gun I am sending is on the list, I then need to ask permission from the Ca DOJ to see if it is OK with them that I send that gun. I know it is more closely monitered on the Californy side, I seem to be one of a few gun dealers who will even send a gun to Cali any longer, but I find it to be good revenge.

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Old 11-10-2010, 01:16 AM   #55
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For instant - If state and local governments can deny you your 2A - They can deny you your 1A rights. I thnik not - Its not a double standard. But in practice, both state and local governments have infringed on these rights and we've let!!!
So it's ok to yell "fire" in a crowded movie theater?
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Old 11-10-2010, 02:30 AM   #56
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Anything that can kill more than 5 people in 1 second shouldn't be allowed. Assuming the people are standing like 1 foot apart. Well...there might be 5 people robbing a bank. How about 10 people in under 2 seconds, and everybody is required to have something that can kill at least 5 people in 1 second. That way nobody will ever do anything and it would probably add much needed chlorine to the gene pool.

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Old 11-10-2010, 03:27 AM   #57
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How about: Shall not be infringed?

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Old 11-10-2010, 03:29 AM   #58
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Shall Not Be Infringed is my vote

Oh and Ploofy are you gonna hafta outlaw vehicles that carry more than 4 people? Airplanes too?

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Old 11-10-2010, 10:25 AM   #59
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Anything that can kill more than 5 people in 1 second shouldn't be allowed. Assuming the people are standing like 1 foot apart. Well...there might be 5 people robbing a bank. How about 10 people in under 2 seconds, and everybody is required to have something that can kill at least 5 people in 1 second. That way nobody will ever do anything and it would probably add much needed chlorine to the gene pool.
When you come up with subjective goofy stuff like this, count on it being screwed with by people who have an agenda.

"...shall not be infringed" covers it.

Now, if you don't like 2A and you want it repealed or modified, petition your state legislature and get others in other states to do likewise to call a Constitutional Convention. Or petition your representative to propose a bill to amend the Constitution.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:16 AM   #60
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There should be a national standard, over 18 no criminal record, no psychological issues, permit is guaranteed. Should be a HCP so open carry is authorized if the permit holder wants. If you are old enough to fight and die for your country, you should be allowed to carry a firearm. Standardize training, there is a big difference from state to state. Permit recognized in all states. Keep FFL class licenses as they are. There is nothing absolute except birth, death and vodka.

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