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Old 06-20-2010, 02:55 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by inwadventures View Post
I don't think most people are disagreeing with the above at all.

Cut and dry as you have it, the answer is NO, it should have NO bearing on the issuance or right to carry.
I brought the question up because it hits close to home. And I am really curious. I have been on pain meds for some years now. I've not increased my dose and actually tried several medications until I found one that keeps my pain level tolerable but wont give me a case of the stupids. THere are several that if I was taking those I couldn't imagine carrying a weapon on me. With the blown discs in my lower back not taking anything is just not an option.

AS things have been the last 5-6 years I don't believe there is any impairment issues being I have lowered my daily intake to about 50% of what was first prescribed. I would hate to think I would be denied the right to defend myself should the situating dictate a need. I have not been denied here and yes I let them know just what I am prescribed daily. I think it would bother me as much or more to think that someone actually thought I should be denied my rights because of my psycical situation as well. In my opinion those taking meds that actually need them are not setting out to get stones so they don't look at their pill bottles as an extreme sport and get to crunching and munching. Though some of the "big boys" in the pain med world I am not too sure about. Like taking 60 mg morphine or those horrid Durigesic (Fentenyl) patches a day [I don't know if I spelled those right]. But what I take now my thinkiing is just fine.

The big problem I see in denying people for the medical MJ is you add more regulations to an issue that has way too many regulations already. At some point a line in the sand needs to bed drawn. I do understand those that have never tried it or those that tried it as youths and didn't like it will have a very negative opinion about MMJ. I think some of these "clinics" do not do much for these opinion being the seedy characters that you see around them. and no office needs a black light (I actually seen one like that once). Maybe if the powers that be would take the clamps off Marinol It could be dispensed in a manner more suitable for more people. The problem is when taking Marinol it is next to impossible to drug test patients to see if they are smoking pot. So it's most always used for terminal patients that are most likely not out copping a lid (man that's an old term!).

I'm not sure jkust where the line needs to be drawn. I'm not one that often takes the moral high ground to look down on anyone else. So that vantage point is pretty foreign for me. The idea of stoned people with guns does not sit all that well for me. But you don't often hear of a pot head going intro a store to rob it. Maybe for a box of Little Debbie's and a Mountain Dew. But socially I know there was a shift in the counter culture from the enlightening effect of marijuana to a lets just see how stoned we can get thing. I first noticed this while in my last year of high school (1982). And I do believe it has got worse since then. That might be for another thread though. The issue here is medical marijuana. I han't a clue just how much you get for a given condition or the potency of the "medicine". So I really have no idea how it effects the patient. I guess I need to get oin the research and se if there's info out there in inter-web land.

I've seen those tattooed face guys too. Man...I don't even want to know what makes a person do that. Old folks homes in the next 30-50 years should be a wild place to see. I think I stand out more than ever these days being I have no tattoo or extra holes in me.
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Old 06-20-2010, 03:44 AM   #32
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inwadventures,

I understand where you are coming from with your thoughts on this matter. What I don't understand is the points of your argument on the subject. Case in point, you mentioned that persons who are prescribed pain meds to manage chronic pain develop a tolerance and are able to function normally when taking the meds as prescribed. Medical pot is prescribed for a number of ailments one of which is chronic pain. The daily weed smokers develop a tolerance as well and are able to function normally when not abused. I think you would be surprised at the number of professionals who are daily reefer heads who function quite well in society and don't fit into your stereotype of a pot head.

As for being natural, I submit that pain meds are not natural at all. One of the prescriptions that terminal cancer patients receive is a synthetic form of THC, the active chemical in pot that gives the user the feeling of being high. Which one is more natural?

Another point you attempted to make is that caffene is not as bad on the functions of people. I will say that there have been countless experiments where creatures and critters have been given doses of various drugs as well as caffene and the findings have been surprising. One of the most famous is where a scientist was able to "dope" up spiders and view their web making ability after dosing. The hashish spider made about half of a well formed web, and did not finish. The LSD spider made a well formed web in perfect geometric shapes. The caffene spider was unable to even make anything that resembled a web, it was all over the place.

Does any of this have anyting to do with medical ganja users and their rights to bear arms? No. Does this have to do with flawed arguements? Yes.

As to the former, I agree with Gatekeeper once again. The latter, well, ignorance is not stupidity, but it lends to invalid points being made in any arguement.
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:14 AM   #33
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well I too am on the wire about this one, there has been many valid points on both sides of the fence, but I'm going to have to lean on the smoking/carry side. I say this only because of the tolerance issue, it wouldn't bother me if there was a waiting period for the permit until a tolerance had been achieved though. When they cheech and chong and get buzzed then I am against it.
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Old 06-20-2010, 05:53 AM   #34
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First of all. DrumJunkie, I am really sorry you are in pain! Especially BACK pain! It SUCKS! And being dependent on pain killers is no fun either, which you know without a doubt. I'm glad you found something that works without impairing you. That is the trick to find the correct med and dose that works for you. I've opted more than once to forgo pain meds for the sake of not being loopy, which I am sure you can relate. Doctors can only guess, you are the one that knows how your body reacts to the meds and can figure out what does works best AND what leaves you BEST in control of you mind and body. Great question and I am sorry for the sidetrack rants.


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inwadventures,

I understand where you are coming from with your thoughts on this matter.

SO first of all, I appologize for the scattered logic as I was attempting to go line by line in response to other posts.
What I don't understand is the points of your argument on the subject. Case in point, you mentioned that persons who are prescribed pain meds to manage chronic pain develop a tolerance and are able to function normally when taking the meds as prescribed.
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That is where it gets tough. Typically chronic pain med users develop a tolerance and can function on reasonable doses(for the individual) without being impaired. But that would have to be determined by a panel of health and safey experts I imagine.
There is a lot of language in there that is not absolute like your interpretation. Which makes your point... a little stretched to look smart. I understand. Big dog on campus, little new guy. I get it. Had I said ALL users develop tolerances, I could see where you would be like WTF but that is not what I said. I also don't recall using those exact words in recards to prescriptions... because pain meds are best used PRN and not scheduled. But I understand where you are coming from in your comparison as it could make a great argument that there is no difference between between getting high off a presciption narcotic or an illegal narcotic or developing a tolerance to either one.

Medical pot is prescribed for a number of ailments one of which is chronic pain. The daily weed smokers develop a tolerance as well and are able to function normally when not abused. Well, it sounds good, but I would be personally shocked to know this as fact as this has NOT been my experience at all. (But I will respect your experience and interpretation and even better, would reverse my view with a valid citation.) This also is EXTREMELY relative to what you consider "functioning nomal" to be. I think you would be surprised at the number of professionals who are daily reefer heads who function quite well in society I noticed you didn't say GREAT or WELL or FLAWLESSLYand don't fit into your stereotype of a pot head. Fair enough, we will agree to disagree as I would never put professional and reefer head in the same category. They may be masquerading as a professional, but unless they are using necessary, prescribed forms of pain control legally and with self control... use of an illegal substance and acceptance of the use of that substance usually implies they are willing to bend other corners and I wouldn't do business with them let alone call them a professional.

As for being natural, I submit that pain meds are not natural at all. One of the prescriptions that terminal cancer patients receive is a synthetic form of THC, the active chemical in pot that gives the user the feeling of being high. Which one is more natural? Neither is Natural if by natural we mean a normal part of the body's needs. Which neither pot nor narcotics are really "needs" except when we opt to use them to treat an ailment. Your missing the point or I didn't make it clear enough. Avoid them all if possible. Did I say presciption pain meds were natural or more natural than pot? I don't think I did, but I will look again. Fragmented arguments or discussions don't work well because points and answers get jarbled. The point is to NOT use mind-altering substances. In whatever form they may be.

Another point you attempted to make is that caffene is not as bad on the functions of people. Not as bad as the functions of people as....WHAT? If you are going to be critical of my points, please make yours clear. As bad as Alcohol? As bad as Pot? As Bad as opiates? Ketchup? ALL of those were discussed at some point. I agree that caffeine is a nastly little drug infused into many every day foods/beverages... but in small and normal, heck even high doses, it is hardly comparable to pot or whatever your drug. If it was, people wouldn't need to go anywhere but their local grocer for a good buzz. Right? Or is this flawed logic too? I will say that there have been countless experiments where creatures and critters have been given doses of various drugs as well as caffene and the findings have been surprising. One of the most famous is where a scientist was able to "dope" up spiders and view their web making ability after dosing. The hashish spider made about half of a well formed web, and did not finish. The LSD spider made a well formed web in perfect geometric shapes. The caffene spider was unable to even make anything that resembled a web, it was all over the place. This is neat and interesting and a link would make it damn cool, but as it is, it is incomplete and really not a good correlation to actual human reactions, and therefore irrelevant. What about their function beyond the moment. Their lifespan. Quality of life. Are we really talking about someones ability to function once or over a day, week, year, lifetime? How many webs were they prompted to spin. How many doses. What amount of the drug were they given? Was it overdose, light dose, medium dose??? Was it appropriate for their mass as to even provide good results? Were the doses given based on equity? 1 ml of caffeine to XX of hashish.... ok. so. cool story. but worthless to your point as we are talking about regular users/abusers(yes both in the span of these threads) not a one time user, which is a great point.(the impact of caffeine ect) Funny how your the one scolding me....

Does any of this have anyting to do with medical ganja users and their rights to bear arms? No. Does this have to do with flawed arguements? Yes. I was responding to some wild comments that were not about the core question but the subject of MJ. If you read closely you will see we probably agree on the actual situation. My responses were going line by line through some interesting logic and statements in addition to the core question. You're right, they got off track. Flawed? Perhaps some of it was lacking detail or precise language but if they are all flawed then obviously you have that struggle too. I think you also interpreted what you wanted to. Forgive me for not itemizing each answer and for wasting people's time. Sincerely. I appologize for getting off the core subject and onto substance abuse/abusers... I guess I followed a lead and we all had a little fun!!!

As to the former, I agree with Gatekeeper once again. The latter, well, ignorance is not stupidity, but it lends to invalid points being made in any arguement. You're too kind!
I understand Gatekeeper's position, and don't disagree. Big fan of consequences for foolery that effects others. It doesn't matter what you do to yourself as long is you leave me and others out of it and out of danger. (Hopefully that is clearer than before.) It's your body and you have every right to put in it what you want so long as you leave me out of it.



Medication use regardless of what it is, should in no way infringe upon ones' right to bear arms. Period.

It is up to the user to know their limits and be responsible. AND as DrumJunkie implied, He knows where that limit is.


Feel free to PM me and we can discuss this further and you can give me some pointers in structuring my arguments. No need to waste any more people's time on the tangent or the schooling.
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Old 06-20-2010, 06:31 AM   #35
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I apologize for wasting everyone's time. Between sleep deprivation and my intense dislike for substance abuse of any kind ... I have gotten carried away. Instead of editing posts, I want to apologize for coming across disrespectful or combative. I assure you we would have had a candid conversation and all agreed that regardless of the sensitivity of MJ as a subject it has no bearing on a person's right to bear arms or get a CCW. I am glad the ruling went the way it did. Had it not, it would have been the beginning of a long list of restrictions leading to only LE only CC permits ect.

I better get some sleep. Newborn. Those that know. Know.

Peace all. Same team.
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Old 06-20-2010, 06:41 AM   #36
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I was an Oregon resident for many years and the Judge ruled correctly in this case. In Oregon, permits are granted or denied by the County Sheriff and many of them are not gun friendly. If this Sheriff's decision had been allowed to stand, they would have started asking for medical records, looking for any history of a prescription, that they could use as justification to deny a permit. A few years back the dem's in Oregon tried to make it illegal to carry while holding a prescription for pain killers. As a DAV who occasionally needs pain killers, I took exception. Fortunately the measure was defeated.

All you well intentioned, "we know better", experts out there who did not fracture there spine while serving this county should thank god you've never had an injury that requires these types of treatment. You should also use caution while treading the path of who SHOULD or SHOULD NOT carry.

Individual judgement and accountability are our watch words. Attempting to legislate common sense is the realm of the libtards and many of you seem far to eager to follow there lead.

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Old 06-20-2010, 08:13 PM   #37
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*bom-chi-chi-waa-waa*

Spiders On Drugs
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:25 PM   #38
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I apologize for wasting everyone's time. .
Dont apologize. I dont think anyone got butthurt over it. THis is what these forums are for. Discussion, even if noone agrees.
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Old 06-20-2010, 11:32 PM   #39
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Dont apologize. I dont think anyone got butthurt over it. THis is what these forums are for. Discussion, even if noone agrees.
+1
The ability to discuss a topic and get opinions for many different directions is what makes these boards more entertaining. Hell, if everyone agreed with everything it be a boring board. I've found this thread very interesting. One really needs a thicker skin if they want to be active in placres like this. And remember...WE don't have to agree. Buit we should support one's right to their opinion.

...butthurt...lmao..that's a good one...
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:22 AM   #40
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Dont apologize. I dont think anyone got butthurt over it. THis is what these forums are for. Discussion, even if noone agrees.
Agreed! Debate & discussion are the basis of much of the knowledge our species has accumulated.
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