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Old 06-17-2014, 01:07 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by John_Deer View Post
What gets me is they prosecute these two but no one prosecutes the thousands of people who are prohibited from buying a gun who try to buy a gun anyway. According to the NRA less than 100 people (I think 73) were prosecuted for trying to buy a gun.
\

It's because he was a bank robber and the only thing that would stick was the Straw Purchase. If he would have not been a suspect in a bank robbery nobody would have even known and this would have never happened.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:43 AM   #12
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So lesson learned. Pay for it a couple days AFTER the person buys it. Then it's just a private sale of a gun that the original buyer did not want anymore

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Old 06-17-2014, 01:50 AM   #13
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so now you can't give a gun to somebody anymore, like a kid for his 16th birthday, probably? Wrong, btw, about the attempts to purchase. I personally know of a guy who did 2.5 years in Fed prison for trying to purchase, after he had a felony. If he'd appealed, he'd probably have won, under the 5th amendment, but do you know how long appeals take, at the Federal level? 3-6 years.

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Old 06-17-2014, 03:26 AM   #14
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so now you can't give a gun to somebody anymore, like a kid for his 16th birthday, probably? Wrong, btw, about the attempts to purchase. I personally know of a guy who did 2.5 years in Fed prison for trying to purchase, after he had a felony. If he'd appealed, he'd probably have won, under the 5th amendment, but do you know how long appeals take, at the Federal level? 3-6 years.
Thats right, if a 16 year old writes you a check and writes "buy me a gun" in the notes section and you cash it and buy them a gun with that money... you have broken the law because you lied on the form you swore you didnt lie on.
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Old 06-17-2014, 03:43 AM   #15
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Keep in mind that the deal involved different states and thus was an illegal transfer over state lines.

Had the firearm been purchased by the guy in VA and sent from seller directly to the guy in PA (through a PA FFL), there would not have been anything illegal.

If I decide to purchase Axxe a gun from some guy in CA, I would have the gun sent to an FFL in Axxe's state and have the seller address the package to Axxe at the FFL. And have the bill of sale in Axxe's name. Axxe would do the transfer paperwork in his name as the actual transferee. In this instance, Axxe is the one actually being the transferee. This is provided that I do not end up with the firearm in my possession. (Of course, I am too dern cheap to do such a thing.)

Now, if JonM came to Florida (as if), and I gave him a firearm (as if), that would be an illegal transfer of a firearm. JonM is not a resident of FL and such a transfer would have to take place through a FFL in WI.

If I go to WI with a firearm and want to give it to JonM (as if), we would have to do the transfer through a FFL in WI. JonM would fill out the paperwork as the transferee. If I gave it to JonM without a FFL involvement, I would be guilty of an illegal transfer.

https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
I tried to buy a gun for my wife. I wanted the gun to be in her name. I asked the LGS if I could just leave a check (joint account) for my wife to purchase the gun. They said no! But they were more than willing to sell me a gift certificate for her to buy the gun with. The gift certificate had a charge of $6 on each $100. My wife has one of my credit cards with her name on it. So she just purchased the gun with the credit card. If we had not been searching for that gun for months I would have told them to stick the gun where the sun doesn't shine. That was over 10 years ago and neither of us have set foot in that gun shop since. Even recently they had 22 wmr ammo for $13 a box we didn't go there. I paid $15 a box to avoid going there. Really, the $15 a box worked out about the same...This place is about 40 miles from here.
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Old 06-17-2014, 04:26 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by danf_fl View Post
Keep in mind that the deal involved different states and thus was an illegal transfer over state lines.

Had the firearm been purchased by the guy in VA and sent from seller directly to the guy in PA (through a PA FFL), there would not have been anything illegal.

If I decide to purchase Axxe a gun from some guy in CA, I would have the gun sent to an FFL in Axxe's state and have the seller address the package to Axxe at the FFL. And have the bill of sale in Axxe's name. Axxe would do the transfer paperwork in his name as the actual transferee. In this instance, Axxe is the one actually being the transferee. This is provided that I do not end up with the firearm in my possession. (Of course, I am too dern cheap to do such a thing.)

Now, if JonM came to Florida (as if), and I gave him a firearm (as if), that would be an illegal transfer of a firearm. JonM is not a resident of FL and such a transfer would have to take place through a FFL in WI.

If I go to WI with a firearm and want to give it to JonM (as if), we would have to do the transfer through a FFL in WI. JonM would fill out the paperwork as the transferee. If I gave it to JonM without a FFL involvement, I would be guilty of an illegal transfer.

https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
damn! i had my hopes up after this i was going to get a new pistol!

from what i gather, it just further penalizes the lawful gun owner, not the criminals.

the entire reason to make straw purchases illegal was so they could prosecute a person who knowingly bought a firearm for someone who couldn't legally buy one themselves. when this first went into effect, there were many cases where criminals and felons were using wives, girlfriends, family members who had clean records doing the purchases.

there are already plenty of laws in place that make it illegal for a felon to be in possession of a firearm.
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Old 06-17-2014, 12:15 PM   #17
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there are already plenty of laws in place that make it illegal for a felon to be in possession of a firearm.
Axxe, I thought you knew how these things worked already...... when a law is broken, politicians like to pass more laws that way it looks like they're doing something!
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Old 06-17-2014, 12:44 PM   #18
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These are all lumping laws to make prosecutors jobs easy. Actual Intent is everything but now its overridden by Assumed Intent. A Grandma sending her grandson with a pistol permit his Grandpas Service 1911 in another state is now a felon along with her Grandkid. My buddy picking up a rifle for me at a gun show makes him and me felons. Registering, paying fees, being inconvenienced and passing it through ATF approved FFL hands makes the same thing legal? Isnt that mandatory weapons registration and Fettering?

If you get someone to buy you a weapon they know will be used to deny someone else their rights, then your intent matches the crime and you deserve the same punishment as the person that you bought it for.

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Old 06-17-2014, 12:45 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by danf_fl View Post
Keep in mind that the deal involved different states and thus was an illegal transfer over state lines.

Had the firearm been purchased by the guy in VA and sent from seller directly to the guy in PA (through a PA FFL), there would not have been anything illegal.

If I decide to purchase Axxe a gun from some guy in CA, I would have the gun sent to an FFL in Axxe's state and have the seller address the package to Axxe at the FFL. And have the bill of sale in Axxe's name. Axxe would do the transfer paperwork in his name as the actual transferee. In this instance, Axxe is the one actually being the transferee. This is provided that I do not end up with the firearm in my possession.
If the "Money" was in your hands before the purchase, it is a "Straw". If you received "money" after you purchased it with your money, then no "straw".
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Old 06-17-2014, 12:54 PM   #20
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so now you can't give a gun to somebody anymore, like a kid for his 16th birthday, probably? Wrong, btw, about the attempts to purchase. .
Not sure how you came to this conclusion, but it is incorrect.

Buying a firearm as a Gift is NOT a Straw purchase.

Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party. ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer “NO” to question 11.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer “YES” to question 11.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), (n), or (x). Please note: EXCEPTION: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.
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