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Old 06-21-2013, 05:06 AM   #31
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My only question is :

If the intruder is armed, do you measure

the length of the blade before he

plunges it into your chest,

or after he pulls it out? Is it

permissible, to then die, after scrawling the

details about the BG's weapon on the floor,

with your own blood? Or will you face additional criminal

charges for expiring before supplying details

to LE in person, when they do arrive at the scene?

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Old 06-21-2013, 02:00 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpossum View Post
I have found that, on the part of police officers, juries, and judges, there is an unwritten presumption that an unknown person trying to FORCE entry into your home means no good. But such a "presumption" is not absolute.

Thank you.

Totality of circumstances.

Reasonable prudent man.

Unfortunately, common sense and reason do not sit well with the "shoot first" crowd.
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:52 PM   #33
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Home invasion shootings are self defense shootings. You can't just kill a person because he/she is in your home. If the perp turns and runs away its not a good idea to shoot unless he/she is armed with a gun. There are folks sitting in prison in OK because they lied to the police. Rule #1: Do not lie to the police. OK City pharmacist Ersland was found guilty of first degree murder because he killed an incapacited robber. The guy may have skated on this one but he lied to the cops.

A couple years ago an OK man killed a home invader. The shooter was a driller who worked out of the country. Soon after the shooting the guy went back to work out of the country. There were witnesses to the shooting. The next time the shooter came home he squared with the sheriff and prosecutor: There were no charges. The sheriff and prosecutor could have been a-holes and had the guy extradited but they did not.

If you find yourself being tried by a jury of your peers for manslaughter or murder because of a home invasion shooting; some things have happened that were not in your favor.

1. The police had a problem with your shooting.
2. The prosecutor had a problem with your shooting. In most jurisdictions the prosecutor seldom has a problem with a self defense shooting unless the police have a problem.
3. The grand jury had a problem with your shooting or the judge bound you over for trial because there was enough evidence against you for a trial.

Yeah, prosecutors in some jurisdictions are happy to try a legitimate self defense case; this is not normal.

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Old 06-21-2013, 03:16 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkguy View Post

honestly, any person i do not know breaking into my home would put me in fear of my life....but does that hold up in court?
Like I said you have to make the decision, obviously if you could hold an intruder off without shooting them that would be ideal. Every situation is different and there are no absolutes.
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Old 06-21-2013, 04:18 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by alsaqr View Post
Home invasion shootings are self defense shootings. You can't just kill a person because he/she is in your home. If the perp turns and runs away its not a good idea to shoot unless he/she is armed with a gun. There are folks sitting in prison in OK because they lied to the police. Rule #1: Do not lie to the police. OK City pharmacist Ersland was found guilty of first degree murder because he killed an incapacited robber. The guy may have skated on this one but he lied to the cops.

A couple years ago an OK man killed a home invader. The shooter was a driller who worked out of the country. Soon after the shooting the guy went back to work out of the country. There were witnesses to the shooting. The next time the shooter came home he squared with the sheriff and prosecutor: There were no charges. The sheriff and prosecutor could have been a-holes and had the guy extradited but they did not.

If you find yourself being tried by a jury of your peers for manslaughter or murder because of a home invasion shooting; some things have happened that were not in your favor.

1. The police had a problem with your shooting.
2. The prosecutor had a problem with your shooting. In most jurisdictions the prosecutor seldom has a problem with a self defense shooting unless the police have a problem.
3. The grand jury had a problem with your shooting or the judge bound you over for trial because there was enough evidence against you for a trial.

Yeah, prosecutors in some jurisdictions are happy to try a legitimate self defense case; this is not normal.
...and this is why you do not speak to the police about the shooting... EVER.

No statement at the scene other than "I though he was going to kill me."

...and no statement at the Precinct.

...shut up, call you Lawyer, and let him make a statement.

With adrenalin pumping it's damn near impossible to remember exactly what you said and you will be asked the same question multiple times... so... do not answer.

Tack
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Old 06-21-2013, 05:54 PM   #36
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This is why wisconsin has the strongest ccw castle laws. If its a good shoot the goblin's family is forbidden by law to bring a civil suit against the victim. The victim is allowed to sue the goblin or the goblin's estate for damages in civil court. Victims of a robbery burglery or murder are allowed to sue businesses that do not provide adequate security if they post no ccw signs. Business that do not post have zero liability and cannot be sued by anyone for the actions of a goblin. These new laws also apply to police shootings. Before ccw/castle law scumbag relatives were allowed to sue officers and citizens on justified shoots.

In milwaukee and madison they take your gun and will often store it as evidence after spray painting or hitting it with hammers or spraying it with salt water until you get a court order (these have all happened to people defending themselves on justified shoots). Places like waukesha the police may just take a picture of your gun and leave it in your possesion or do nothing with it. Mileage varies depending on how scummy the police chief is.

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Old 06-21-2013, 07:18 PM   #37
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In OK the prosecutor is not required to take a righteous shooting case to the grand jury. If the prosecutor declines to prosecute; the family of the late perp can take up a petition for a grand jury. No one will sign a petition for a grand jury on behalf of a scumbag who got killed in a home invasion. In righteous shooting cases, OK law precludes lawsuits by the friends and family of the late perp.

In OK the accomplices of the late scumbag are usually charged with murder. In the case of the attempted robbery of the OK City pharmacy; four people were found guilty of murder: The pharmacist, the accomplice of the late perp, and the two adults who masterminded the robbery. Last year two guys were stealing copper from a power substation and one was electrocuted. The prosecutor charged the live thief with murder for the death of his bud.

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Old 06-21-2013, 07:34 PM   #38
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Quote:
What? ALL MUST BE ARRESTED? Where did you get that info. That could not be further from the truth.
Since you and the dead person are the only two who know what actually happen, yes you are arrested and the gun taken into evidence.

First charge is discharge of a firearm within city limits (misdemeanor) , second charge is assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill, third charge is manslaughter.

These would be the lesser charges against you, if you knew the person you shot then they go to First, Second or Third degree murder depending on the circumstances.

Anytime a life is taken, it must be determined by the coroner the cause of death and the condition or cause of the killing. Till then you are just raw meat sitting on a hook waiting for arraignment and trial. Sorry but that's just the way it is. If he had shot at you, then it might have been a different story. But instead of breaking his jaw with the butt of the shotgun, you decided to kill him.

If I was the State's Attorney in your county, you would be looking at 15 years.

Jim
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Old 06-21-2013, 07:43 PM   #39
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From what I can see the laws are different in each state so it would depend what state you were in what would happen.

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Old 06-21-2013, 10:35 PM   #40
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Quote:
Since you and the dead person are the only two who know what actually happen, yes you are arrested and the gun taken into evidence.

First charge is discharge of a firearm within city limits (misdemeanor) , second charge is assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill, third charge is manslaughter.

These would be the lesser charges against you, if you knew the person you shot then they go to First, Second or Third degree murder depending on the circumstances.

Anytime a life is taken, it must be determined by the coroner the cause of death and the condition or cause of the killing. Till then you are just raw meat sitting on a hook waiting for arraignment and trial. Sorry but that's just the way it is. If he had shot at you, then it might have been a different story. But instead of breaking his jaw with the butt of the shotgun, you decided to kill him.
Yep, no doubt this stuff happens in the state of IL. It does not happen everywhere in the USA, thank God.

This OK lady killed a home invader on New Years Eve:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0105/Oklahoma-mom-kills-home-invader-Why-the-law-was-on-her-side

In less than one week the county prosecutor gave the lady a pass and charged an accomplice of the late perp with murder:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0105/Oklahoma-mom-kills-home-invader-Why-the-law-was-on-her-side


BTW: The county deputies took up a collection and bought the lady a new shotgun.
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