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Old 11-09-2013, 01:39 AM   #31
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Well according to the police statement in the sarcasm laden article linked in the first post, it was he who confronted them, not the other way around.
Yes, that is true. And it ties in directly with your notion to avoid the confrontation if possible (your earlier post) unless it is at your home or you are directly involved - which he didn't seem to be until he decided he was going to be.
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:50 AM   #32
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I would have locked the door before the robbers got in the store given the chance. Once the robbers got in the store confronting the robbers was the clerks only hope. Robbers have been known to shoot the clerk so there are no witnesses. He tried to call the police, that is when the robbers attacked the clerk. There is nothing grey about this case, it was clearly self defense.

If I was the was the clerk I would be having nightmares. I would need lengthy counseling and time away from the store that now terrifies me.
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:53 AM   #33
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Depending on the state law, they may not be allowed to sue the citizen. Here in AZ the criminal and their heirs lose all right to sue if the injury or death is the result of participating in a crime.
Texas has the same statute within the Castle Law. if the shooting was justified and legal, used in self defence, the attacker or his family, if he was killed while attempting to commit a felony, is free from bing sued in civil court for damages.

this was not always the case in Texas though. this is why i think more states need to pass Castle Laws and to provide provisions that disallow the criminals or their families from bringing civil lawsuits when a shooting is deemed justified.
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:57 AM   #34
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I want to be very clear. I in no way feel sorry for the bastards. I do not think the shooting was ENTIRELY unjustified. I don't believe the guy should be charged, and I damn sure don't think the families of the thugs should be compensated in any way whatsoever. If anything, they should be compensating HIM and the store clerk. I've been involved in an armed robbery before. It's a scary thing when you go to step in to the office from your shop, and you peek through the window and see your best friend pissing all over himself with a gun in his face. I slipped into the parts room and called 911. They never caught the old lady to my knowledge.

Yes, a white female geriatric. Hair so white it looked blue. Had a damn four footed cane and a long barreled revolver, shaking like a nervous chihuahua. He and I were sixteen.

My only point is, in my opinion, it was a tactically unsound decision. Confronting TWO masked men coming out of a convenience store. Did he even know they had a third as the getaway driver? He (the driver) could've really brought about a different outcome, as if a two to one fight weren't poor enough odds.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:10 PM   #35
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Thought about this overnight, and as much as I hate to say it, depending on the prosecutor, the bad guy's family may have a case. This didn't become a SD situation till the citizen inserted himself into it. If the district attorney's office decides this guy was playing cop/hero wannabe, his troubles are only beginning.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:13 PM   #36
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i think they ought to sue the robbers family for birthing such a scumbag!
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:26 PM   #37
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Thought about this overnight, and as much as I hate to say it, depending on the prosecutor, the bad guy's family may have a case. This didn't become a SD situation till the citizen inserted himself into it. If the district attorney's office decides this guy was playing cop/hero wannabe, his troubles are only beginning.
True, but it was a forcible felony, and with armed suspects there was a chance of death or great bodily harm. I don't see a criminal case on this at all. Pennsylvania state statutes are going to determine whether a civil case can be brought or not. Unless it is forbidden under law, you can bet that there is at least one ambulance chaser out there that will at least consider taking on a civil suit. Here's hoping the good guy is poor.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:36 PM   #38
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There are citizen's arrest laws on the books in every state which would come into play here. Here in AL a citizen has almost as much power to arrest as the LEO's do, and the use of force statues are more than likely on the citizens side too.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:50 PM   #39
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There are citizen's arrest laws on the books in every state which would come into play here. Here in AL a citizen as almost as much power to arrest as the LEO's do, and the use of force statues are more than likely on the citizens side too.
The problem with a citizen actually using those citizen arrest laws is that they don't have any degree of sovereign immunity to protect them. They also probably don't have any liability insurance like a LE agency would have on their officers. They are on their own from a civil standpoint unless they have statutory protection.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:52 PM   #40
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There are citizen's arrest laws on the books in every state which would come into play here. Here in AL a citizen as almost as much power to arrest as the LEO's do, and the use of force statues are more than likely on the citizens side too.
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The problem with a citizen actually using those citizen arrest laws is that they don't have any degree of sovereign immunity to protect them. They also probably don't have any liability insurance like a LE agency would have on their officers. They are on their own from a civil standpoint unless they have statutory protection.
It also appears that a citizens arrest is exactly what he was attempting to begin with anyway.
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