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Old 01-14-2011, 09:11 PM   #41
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Talk about stereotyping a group of people. You know that's what the left says about all gun owners don't you?
Well, considering that gun owners are more likely to actually buy into the idea of a militia, and the far leftists see the word militia as I stated they see it, that kinda makes sense. They see "militia" as I stated, and they think that anyone who supports the idea as a member of the "stereotypical militia mindset."

It's just like how some members on this forum believe that if a person says that they're for international assault weapons trading reform, it means that their an anti-gun liberal with no brain, and not simply someone who wants to see less assault weapons get from Russian military surplus depots into the hands of Taliban fighters.
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:11 AM   #42
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If you're the type of person who wants to claim that there should be no restrictions on owning a handgun, I want to see you on these forums arguing that convicted felons should have the right to purchase and have handguns and other weapons.
Not for nothing,but convicted felons DO have the Right to keep and bear arms. If you feel differently the you must believe that the Second Amendment is merely a privledge, to be revoked at any time. Now don't get me wrong, violent criminals should most definitely NOT be walking around armed. The fact is, violent criminals should not be walking around at all! They should be removed from society where they do not have access to arms, and pose no threat to society. Their Right is still their Right, and it cannot be taken away, by you, me or anyone else!!

As far as fees for permits? Well to me that opens up another whole can of worms, any fee is a tax. If I am not mistaken, a right cannot taxed, regardless of how said tax is used. And IMO, any fee, permit,or any other REGULATION of my Right, is an infringement, and therefore is unconstitutional!!

The only thing that making it illegal to purchase, own, carry any firearm does is make criminals out of law-abiding citizens.

NO ONE should be able to say that you only need this type of firearm, but THAT one is illegal for you to own. So who decides what the limits are. You? Me? Obama? Pelosi? To me, seeing the "FOR POLICE AND MILITARY USE ONLY" is tyranny at its blatant best! ok,I'm done.
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:17 AM   #43
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This current perception of Militias is one the has been propagated by the Liberal mainstream media, and ALL the mindless little sheeple who believe everything they hear on the news buy right into that stereotyping line of bullsh!t!! I truly wish people would be a bit more skeptical of what the fear mongering MSM pushes!

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Old 01-15-2011, 05:55 PM   #44
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Firearms is a subject I don't have much interest in. I lived in Arizona for decades so the shooting there a week ago really ticked me off, especially since I know the shopping center where they occurred.

Why am I concerned about US guns getting into Mexican drug cartel gangs? I lived on the Mexican border for three years and am aghast at what's happening to innocent people in Mexico. One border town had 3000 citizens murdered last year. This war is also spilling over into the US, with some drug cartel members taking up residence here. I don't know the latest, but the Mexican government has asked the US to outlaw assault gun sales into Mexico, and I don't think the US has done anything about it. Why not? This is just common sense.

I resent special interest groups like the NRA who buy off our elected officials with donations. Special interest groups should be told, Sure, I'll accept your donation but can't promise to vote your interests. I think the present funding of election campaigns is going to come to an end somehow, as what is today really is just buying votes by special interests. Someone said the Presidential election in two years might cost a billion dollars, and this cannot stand. It's against all America stands for.

I don't know the precise meaning of the Second Amendment. I believe the Constitution needs to be interpreted for present times, else what good is it? Phooey on Judge Scalia, who I think should volunteer to be water-boarded so he can decide if it's torture or not.

Because there have been and continue to be so many crazed people using automatic guns to massacre innocent citizens, I believe there needs to be stricter laws re the availability and sale of what are essentially warfare weapons. I say that if a person owns a single gun, the Bill of Rights has given to him what it guaranteed.

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Old 01-15-2011, 05:58 PM   #45
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Not for nothing,but convicted felons DO have the Right to keep and bear arms. If you feel differently the you must believe that the Second Amendment is merely a privledge, to be revoked at any time. Now don't get me wrong, violent criminals should most definitely NOT be walking around armed. The fact is, violent criminals should not be walking around at all! They should be removed from society where they do not have access to arms, and pose no threat to society. Their Right is still their Right, and it cannot be taken away, by you, me or anyone else!!

As far as fees for permits? Well to me that opens up another whole can of worms, any fee is a tax. If I am not mistaken, a right cannot taxed, regardless of how said tax is used. And IMO, any fee, permit,or any other REGULATION of my Right, is an infringement, and therefore is unconstitutional!!
100% right. QFT^10
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:06 PM   #46
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Firearms is a subject I don't have much interest in. I lived in Arizona for decades so the shooting there a week ago really ticked me off, especially since I know the shopping center where they occurred.

Why am I concerned about US guns getting into Mexican drug cartel gangs? I lived on the Mexican border for three years and am aghast at what's happening to innocent people in Mexico. One border town had 3000 citizens murdered last year. This war is also spilling over into the US, with some drug cartel members taking up residence here. I don't know the latest, but the Mexican government has asked the US to outlaw assault gun sales into Mexico, and I don't think the US has done anything about it. Why not? This is just common sense.

I resent special interest groups like the NRA who buy off our elected officials with donations. Special interest groups should be told, Sure, I'll accept your donation but can't promise to vote your interests. I think the present funding of election campaigns is going to come to an end somehow, as what is today really is just buying votes by special interests. Someone said the Presidential election in two years might cost a billion dollars, and this cannot stand. It's against all America stands for.

I don't know the precise meaning of the Second Amendment. I believe the Constitution needs to be interpreted for present times, else what good is it? Phooey on Judge Scalia, who I think should volunteer to be water-boarded so he can decide if it's torture or not.

Because there have been and continue to be so many crazed people using automatic guns to massacre innocent citizens, I believe there needs to be stricter laws re the availability and sale of what are essentially warfare weapons. I say that if a person owns a single gun, the Bill of Rights has given to him what it guaranteed.
Hmmm. .. lead paint chip overdose as a youth would be my hypothesis.
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:16 PM   #47
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Why am I concerned about US guns getting into Mexican drug cartel gangs? I lived on the Mexican border for three years and am aghast at what's happening to innocent people in Mexico. One border town had 3000 citizens murdered last year. This war is also spilling over into the US, with some drug cartel members taking up residence here. I don't know the latest, but the Mexican government has asked the US to outlaw assault gun sales into Mexico, and I don't think the US has done anything about it. Why not? This is just common sense.
Well, the first thing to ask is "What's an assault gun?". Mexican drug cartels are very much into fully-automatic rifles, grenades, grenade launchers, etc. You can't buy this stuff in the U.S. without a Class III license and even then it is pretty heavily registered. It's not like Jose is walking into a gun store and buying 250 crates of full-auto M-16s and driving them into Tijuana. But the media would like you to think that's what's happening.

What I encourage everyone to do is go to google and search for ATF walking guns. It seems daily, we have more evidence that semi-auto civilian AR-15s and other firearms (not auto, not illegal) are moving from the U.S. into Mexico with the knowledge and overt help of the BATFE. Some have speculated that this is being done in order to justify the BATFE's desire to establish gun-control by bureaucratic fiat rather than through congressional legislation.

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I resent special interest groups like the NRA who buy off our elected officials with donations. Special interest groups should be told, Sure, I'll accept your donation but can't promise to vote your interests. I think the present funding of election campaigns is going to come to an end somehow, as what is today really is just buying votes by special interests. Someone said the Presidential election in two years might cost a billion dollars, and this cannot stand. It's against all America stands for.
1. It already costs about a billion dollars to become president.
2. I agree this is wrong and it should not stand.
3. The NRA does not buy votes from elected officials any more than other SIGs. So if you want all SIGs and lobbyists out of D.C. then we're on the same page. If you single the NRA out, then we're at odds.

That said, the NRA has capitulated on the Second Amendment too many times for anyone to take them seriously anymore.

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I don't know the precise meaning of the Second Amendment.
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

The word "regulated" in this context means "operating well together". Militias were not under control of the government but rather a local commander who reported ultimately to the governor of a state.

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I believe the Constitution needs to be interpreted for present times, else what good is it?
Well, I would ask you to cite any other laws in the U.S. that have been interpreted to mean something diametrically-opposed to its original intent over time without the wording of the law being changed. To my knowledge, there aren't any; what laws say is what they mean.

If you don't like what the Constitution says, that's OK. There are two ways to go about amending or outright replacing the Constitution. Rather than twisting words to mean what they don't, follow the law.

If you advocate ignoring the supreme law of the land out of expedience or for any other reason, you're in very dangerous waters; no one can protect anyone when the rule of law is gone.

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Phooey on Judge Scalia, who I think should volunteer to be water-boarded so he can decide if it's torture or not.
I'll volunteer. I'm sure it's scary as hell.

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Because there have been and continue to be so many crazed people using automatic guns to massacre innocent citizens, I believe there needs to be stricter laws re the availability and sale of what are essentially warfare weapons. I say that if a person owns a single gun, the Bill of Rights has given to him what it guaranteed.
You said earlier that firearms are a subject you don't have much interest in. I would suggest maybe it's also a subject you don't have much knowledge about. Everyone arrives at conclusion to problems based on information available to them at the time. As someone who knows something about firearms and the law and history, I encourage you to do some digging and learning. You will find that firearms are not inherently dangerous, and you will come to understand what the second amendment is all about. You will also come to understand something about firearms, their capabilities (and lack thereof) and how they work.

More significantly, is the more you learn about the subject and about history, the more likely it is you will completely change your opinion as posted here.
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Old 01-15-2011, 09:56 PM   #48
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This current perception of Militias is one the has been propagated by the Liberal mainstream media, and ALL the mindless little sheeple who believe everything they hear on the news buy right into that stereotyping line of bullsh!t!! I truly wish people would be a bit more skeptical of what the fear mongering MSM pushes!
You're statement might be true, but I will point out some examples of.

Michigan Militia, which was quick to blame Japan for the Oklahoma City bombing, which was in response to supposed "US government sponsored sarin gas attacks".

Another militia in Montana that threatened that "If we can't get you at the ballot box, we'll get you with a bullet. We have a militia of 10,000."

The Arizona Minutemen who proudly display Confederate flags:


I support militias. However, as I've pointed out (and this is just from 3 minutes of research), there are plenty of militias that don't help with the nation's perception of them.

Heck, even my perception of them is tainted by the fact of one of my classmates being dragged into the woods and beaten because his last name was Rodriges.

So, please, don't try to claim it's all "made up by the liberal media;" it's obvious that if militias aren't organized well, they can attract that type of person and become that type of organization.
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Old 01-15-2011, 10:02 PM   #49
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Hmmm. .. lead paint chip overdose as a youth would be my hypothesis.
Y'know, Freddy, a response like that isn't going to help us win over support, or, at the very least, respect and understanding for our own opinions.

So, he doesn't share your point of view, so your first response is to start laying down insults?

Why not try to have intelligent discussion? He obviously came to OUR forum, which means that he's probably willing to be open-minded, and you respond by acting like a fourth-grader, treating it as a "if you're not with us your against us" mentality?

Seriously. WTF is wrong with you?
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Old 01-15-2011, 10:10 PM   #50
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So, please, don't try to claim it's all "made up by the liberal media;" it's obvious that if militias aren't organized well, they can attract that type of person and become that type of organization.
There are idiots anywhere you go. And if some white supremacist group forms a militia for the purpose of killing black folks and wants to overthrow the government they believe is controlled by Jews, that's unquestionably bad.

But there are a LOT of militias out there, and most of them aren't like that at all. The media, by illustrating the few militias out there that are nuts, implies all militias are nuts. So while it's not "made up" by the media, the media has deliberately shaped public opinion of what militias are through lies of omission.
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