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Old 09-11-2011, 11:52 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by therewolf View Post
"If all you usually shoot is reloads at the range, why did you

specifically, purposely, buy factory loads to kill my

client?"

The attorney is going to try to make you look bad for shooting

baby Jesus no matter what you do..
.
THAT was classic!
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:35 AM   #12
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Comparing yourself in any way to LE (saying you use the same ammo) could easily invite the accusation that you think you are some vigilante out fight crime.

A prosecutor can and will turn anything on you.


BTW, that case out of Arizona, the "Harold Fish" case, had little to do with the ammunition. It was only used as additional demonization. The issue was that he triple-tapped an unarmed man in the chest. Legally, he was already eyeball deep in hot water.

As was stated, a good shoot is a good shoot. As long as you aren't loading tracers or HE rounds or something, you'll be fine .

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Old 09-12-2011, 01:07 AM   #13
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As was stated, a good shoot is a good shoot. As long as you aren't loading tracers or HE rounds or something, you'll be fine .
If only that were so.

If you have to shoot someone in self defense, you must understand that when the police arrive, you are a suspect in a shooting. Perhaps they will figure out that you're the good guy, but you don't want to depend on that. Remember that the police are not on your side; they are there to arrest somebody for a crime, and you'll do. Do not speak to the police until you have an attorney; If you must speak, truthfully say only that you were in fear for your life. Expect that you may be arrested. Expect that even if you prevail in the end, you may spend a fortune to defend yourself.

A "good shoot" is no guarantee of everything coming out all right.
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Old 09-16-2011, 10:03 PM   #14
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The main thing we need is to elliminate any excuse that we can for a prosecutor or witness to generate a negative impression of our motives. It will be painful enough to have gone thru the experience of having to take another life to save your own. But then to have an ambitious lawyer try to feed you to the wolves to put another notch in his gun is where you really need the best self-defense you can muster. So carry a gun that is not a "Rambo special", nor a Dirty Harry image. Load it with middle of the road factory ammo, and learn the skills to be able to place a shot where the ammo will not need to be extraordinary to shut down the BG. And NEVER let friends and aquaintances hear you mouthing off about "wasting" someone, or other such talk. Someone who laughs with you when you do that may end up being a witness for the prosecution.

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Old 09-17-2011, 03:17 AM   #15
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A prosecutor can demonize ANYTHING if he wants to...

"And see, he intentionally made his own ammunition less powerful than what he could find off the shelf, so he could more easily put round after round into my victimized client."

"And see, he even chose ammunition our brave police officers use because he thought they would have chosen the deadliest ammunition around."

"And see, he even chose Full Metal Jacket ammunition because it is widely known that they are still effective after passing through doors and cars, situations only our military face--the vigilante!"

"And see, he chose a .40-caliber handgun when a lower-powered round could have been used without so gravely injuring my client."

"And see, he practices often just waiting for the chance to exact his own vigilante street-justice against victims like my client!"

"And see, he picked some of the most expensive "cop killing" ammo around, the deadly Black Talon loading, because he wanted to make sure whoever he shot died the most painful death possible!"

See what I mean? Any aggressive prosecutor can and will come up with any of these (took me about a minute), and any decent defense attourney will shoot them down with no problem.

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Old 09-17-2011, 01:52 PM   #16
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Quote:
, that case out of Arizona, the "Harold Fish" case, had little to do with the ammunition. It was only used as additional demonization. The issue was that he triple-tapped an unarmed man in the chest. Legally, he was already eyeball deep in hot water.
Some folks like to cite the Fish case and a case out of OK where a guy who had been boozing decided to become a traffic cop. The OK guy was found not guilty after he lost his job, his home and his life savings.

If you find yourself in court charged with the death of a perp you have already failed three tests:

1. The cops most likely did not believe your story.

2. The prosecutor did not believe your story.

3. Most importantly, the grand jury did not believe your story.

Ersland, the OK City pharamacist, is in jail for life because he lied to the cops, tampered with the crime scene, planted "evidence", and jumped before the TV cameras like he had saved the world from evil.

Folks, i've been through this stuff twice. First time the prosecutor refused to take my wife and i to the grand jury. Last time the grand jury refused to indict; after deliberating for about ten minutes.
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Old 09-18-2011, 12:02 AM   #17
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A

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simple traffic stop leads to the smell of drugs, Probable Cause for a vehicle search, viola, drugs!
Good post. Recently a cop in Pueblo, Co arrested a perp on I-25. In the car was 100 Kg (220 pounds) of cocaine. The perp had an invalid drivers license and no insurance. You'd think the dope smugglers would hire drivers with squeaky clean driving records.

Pueblo police seize $10 million of cocaine in rental car, two arrested - The Denver Post

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A check of the license of the driver, Mark Bailey, 37, of Sylmar, Calif., the driver, was held on suspicion of driving under suspension and without insurance. Martinez called for backup, including an officer with canine.
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Old 09-18-2011, 12:34 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
I have known of one case, in Arizona, where an overly zealous prosecutor harped on the ammo used in a self defense shooting. Altho I have heard the rationale used by many people, there has been a scarcity of such cases.

However, I happen to carry the same ammo as our local Sheriff's Dept. If I ever find myself in court, with a lawyer asking why I chose THAT ammo, I plan to point at the bailiff, and say "Because that is what the county issues to HIM- so I figured it would be a good choice."
2nd C3.

Personally I test fire several defensive loads in the weight I'm looking for and pick the factory load that shoots the best through my chosen carry piece. I would certainly go with whatever the Clark County Sheriff's office issues "if it hit to point of aim and grouped well" in my gun.

TACK
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Old 09-18-2011, 12:58 AM   #19
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the police arent out to get anyone. they just take orders from the dirt bags that we the people elect to office.

if you elect a dirt bag mayor he is assuredly going to appoint a dirt bag as chief of police. same for electing sheriffs.

if you dont like your local police ticketing speeders as their primary job duty elect public officials who will re-direct their efforts to an active you prefer. the citizen complaining about police is solely responsible for putting the police leadership in charge of that road cop's activities.

think about it

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Old 09-18-2011, 01:47 AM   #20
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how are going to know it was a reload?.

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