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-   -   Reloading Ammo - Self Defense Ammo (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/reloading-ammo-self-defense-ammo-48099/)

Arnie2toy 09-11-2011 01:14 AM

Reloading Ammo - Self Defense Ammo
 
I was in a noted gun shop in Columbus Ohio & was listening to a sales person speak to an individual on reloading their own ammo for self defense and target in general. The counter person said that they would only use ammo for self defense that was factory loaded ( ie: Hornady XTP hollow point - Self defense load) because if you load your own hollow point ammo (ie: 9mm 115 gr using Horandy XTP bullets) you would be prosecuted in Ohio for specificially loading bullets designed to kill an individual. The customer at the counter explained that when they reload their ammo, they never reload max loads and normally load at the lower end of the reload data per the reloading manuals. The store employees info seemed a bit off track to me. Can anyone give me any advice as whether this info was correct as provided by the store? Thanks

ahole 09-11-2011 01:53 AM

if you do use reloaded ammo for self defense do not tell the officer that you where using your own reloads until you have consulted your lawer after the fact. 9 times out of ten there no going to ask where did you get the bullets that where in you gun. Ill bet if you stay quite about that and not run your mouth it probably will not even be brought up as an issue.

ttolhurst 09-11-2011 02:26 AM

Massad Ayoob strongly advises against reloading self defense ammo. If you are ever prosecuted over a defensive shooting, the prosecution can use your reloaded ammo against you. They will argue that normal factory ammunition wasn't deadly enough for your purposes when you went out hunting for your victim; No, you had to specially craft hand-loaded ammunition in order to get the most lethal effect possible.

You're better off using a popular commercial load; better yet if it's a load which is widely-adopted by law enforcement agencies. It's hard for a prosecutor to cast the cops' ammo as crazed-vigilante killer bullets.

Besides, the irony is that today's advanced defensive ammo is more effective than the "killer" reloads, anyway.

c3shooter 09-11-2011 02:38 AM

I have known of one case, in Arizona, where an overly zealous prosecutor harped on the ammo used in a self defense shooting. Altho I have heard the rationale used by many people, there has been a scarcity of such cases.

However, I happen to carry the same ammo as our local Sheriff's Dept. If I ever find myself in court, with a lawyer asking why I chose THAT ammo, I plan to point at the bailiff, and say "Because that is what the county issues to HIM- so I figured it would be a good choice."

BigByrd47119 09-11-2011 05:34 AM

I wonder which LGS it is that your referring to. If its the one I suspect, I'm not entirely surprised by the answer he gave, considering they quoted my fiancee $400 for a PF-9 and then quoted me $315. Sounds to me like he wanted to sell some ammo at a buck 50 a round:rolleyes:.

Anyways, I think you would be alright. If you lived in San Francisco I could see being concerned, but I doubt most prosecutors would make an issue of it.

robocop10mm 09-11-2011 06:54 AM

It is not just the prosecutors you have to be concerned with. There will likely be a civil suit also. The plaintiff's attorney will no doubt use the "super-duper, flesh cutting, baby killing, handload ammo" as a means to inflame the jury against you.

In reality, a good shoot is a good shoot. The attorneys have to use whatever BS they can to get the result they want. If you are using reloaded ammo, it will be fairly easy to prove as the extractor, ejector, breechface markings will still be present from the previous firing. These marks will conflict with your gun's markings. If you handload using new brass it will be much more difficult to prove.

Using the ammo your local LEO's are issued is a good rule of thumb. Very difficult for an attorney to paint you as a blood thirsty heathen without attacking the local LEO's.

RJMercer 09-11-2011 10:05 AM

I've been told to use factory loads for HD as well. If you are unlucky enough to have to fire a round in self defense, a team of lawyers will have -months- to pick apart every detail of a decision you had a few short -seconds- to make and the round you fired could possibly factor in to those details they examine.

alsaqr 09-11-2011 11:26 AM

Quote:

The counter person said that they would only use ammo for self defense that was factory loaded ( ie: Hornady XTP hollow point - Self defense load) because if you load your own hollow point ammo (ie: 9mm 115 gr using Horandy XTP bullets) you would be prosecuted in Ohio for specificially loading bullets designed to kill an individual.
Problem is that Mas Ayoob and the other advocates of using only factory ammo for self defense can find very little to back up their claims. i once met a woman who shot a home invader five times with a .38 special using wad cutters that had been loaded backwards: Talk about a big hollowpoint. The perp died on the spot. The case went to the grand jury without charges. The grand jury gave the lady a pass.

The vast majority of police and prosecutors could care less what the perp was shot with so long as it was a good shoot. The OK "make my day" law went into effect in 1987. Since that time no person who made a righteous shoot has ever been successfully sued in an OK court.

If you live in one of the anti-gun People's Demokratic Republiks you might have a problem with handloaded ammo for self defense.

ttolhurst 09-11-2011 03:13 PM

Quote:

Problem is that Mas Ayoob and the other advocates of using only factory ammo for self defense can find very little to back up their claims
I'll take Mas Ayoob's advice on just about anything every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. There's no upside to using reloads for self-defense, only downside.

therewolf 09-11-2011 08:37 PM

"If all you usually shoot is reloads at the range, why did you

specifically, purposely, buy factory loads to kill my

client?"

The attorney is going to try to make you look bad for shooting

baby Jesus no matter what you do...


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