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-   -   The real reason for gunwalker/gunrunner (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/real-reason-gunwalker-gunrunner-45135/)

Cory2 07-13-2011 08:15 PM

The real reason for gunwalker/gunrunner
 
Does anyone know how many guns, exactly, have been sold to Mexico by the ATF since 2006 when gunwalker began?

Reason I ask is because i was reading on the brady bunch site (know thy enemy) that there has been 20,000 American guns recovered in Mexico (since 2007 interesting timing huh?)... I wonder how many of those are there because of the ATF?

Manufacturing support for stricter gun laws.... Didn't they say they had gps devices in some of the guns they sold? That would definately assist in finding them to use as "evidence" no?....

It seems to me that the media is going about this all wrong. I haven't seen in any media suggesting this was an attempt to create "proof" for more gun laws and restrictions, but I think it is pretty apparent that that was its main purpose.


Opinions?

culdee 07-13-2011 09:34 PM

gps
 
OK now you got me worried, how do we know whether any guns that we might have bought have chips impanted in them? Any one know of a way to scan for them? Not that I am paranoid but it could be defended by the admin as saying they are used to recover stolen guns, ya know.:eek:

anm2_man 07-13-2011 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by culdee (Post 540506)
OK now you got me worried, how do we know whether any guns that we might have bought have chips impanted in them? Any one know of a way to scan for them? Not that I am paranoid but it could be defended by the admin as saying they are used to recover stolen guns, ya know.:eek:


No - If they had chips in them, they could of followed them. The scumbags at the Justice Dept, figured they would let some guns go across the border, some would be recovered, and thus a case for more gun control. Well they didn't think that an American (border agent) would be murdered with one of those guns. As far as I'm concerned, the white house and everybody else should be on trial for MURDER ! :mad:

freefall 07-14-2011 01:44 AM

Looking at this from the (far) outside, it seems obvious to me that the whole reason for this bollocks of a plan was to be able to prove that the guns being used in the Mexican drug violence were indeed bought from legal arms dealers in the US, thus necessitating more controls, more agents, and larger budgets. If anybody has a better suggestion I'm willing to listen but hard to convince.

alsaqr 07-14-2011 11:27 AM

The purpose of the putrid Gunrunner/Walker/Whatever plan is to motivate congress into passing a draconian "assault weapons ban".

i will say it again: Why in hades would a drug lord pay huge prices for semi-auto guns smuggled in from the US when he can buy a container full of rock and roll AK-47s for $250 apiece?

Richard47 07-14-2011 01:20 PM

The Cartels have billions of dollars, and access to Mexican Army weapons. They have attack helicopters, and even submarines.

And the goverment REALLY wants us to believe an outfit with resources like that sends folks hiking thrugh the desert with false IDs so "Texas gunstores" will sell them a Century "AK" or a Glock 9?

No wonder the Cartels are winning.....

easterner123 07-14-2011 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard47 (Post 540973)
The Cartels have billions of dollars, and access to Mexican Army weapons. They have attack helicopters, and even submarines.

And the goverment REALLY wants us to believe an outfit with resources like that sends folks hiking thrugh the desert with false IDs so "Texas gunstores" will sell them a Century "AK" or a Glock 9?

No wonder the Cartels are winning.....

This is a great point. Why risk going through the United States with weapons when they can be so easily had from South America, which is flooded with cheap soviet style weapons, as well as weapons we gave "freedom fighters" that were against communism during the cold war, and now no longer have an enemy to fight?

Illegal AKs are 1) Full auto 2) Much cheaper and 3) Available in bulk.

Its awfully suspicious to order 50 AKs and 100,000 rounds of 5.45x39 from an American gunstore to Mexico ya know? :o

The operation was stupid. If it was in a series of controlled stings (ie. gun crosses, proven illegal, recovered within 24-48 hours) then maybe it would not be a constitutional outrage. But the fact that one of our own men was killed...

Now, I lost my guns to a canoing accident a while back, damn near lost myself :o. But if I were a new gunowner, try buying a shotgun or two off grandpa to keep off the books... just in case.

gocritter 07-14-2011 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anm2_man (Post 540549)
No - If they had chips in them, they could of followed them. The scumbags at the Justice Dept, figured they would let some guns go across the border, some would be recovered, and thus a case for more gun control. Well they didn't think that an American (border agent) would be murdered with one of those guns. As far as I'm concerned, the white house and everybody else should be on trial for MURDER ! :mad:

How soon we forget, Waco, Clinton, the justice dept. The laws billy bob wanted to pass. Hmmm, the sec. of state now is? The president, and I use the word loosely, comes from what state and background? If that don't fit you have the wrong pair of gloves and your 2 year old just crawled in a plastic bag an took a walk in the woods.

Millwright 07-14-2011 08:31 PM

C2,

Keep in mind the Spin Machine is maxed out - both in the anti-gun and government camps - right about now. We're going to see a lot of factoids popping up in MSM "stories" - that are pretty much PRs - from these groups. Its a face-saving manuver as the MSM hasn't studiously ignored all the blood in the water from Rep. Issa's HCGR hearings and its consequential impact.

Its emerging "gun walking" (a sobriquet created by Mr. D. Codrea of Examiner), is/has taken place in CA, NM, TX and FL (and perhaps other states). The FL connection may prove the most damaging as it has ties to Honduras where, you might recall, USAG Holder spoke on the subject of contraband guns in March of '09 . What remains questionable is the purpose of what are essentially small-scale buys of very expensive weapons.

The Cartels have billions in assets. They have business/criminal connections worldwide. They have heavy transport aircraft, ships, even submarines. As noted by others here, they can purchase all sorts of light infantry weapons on the world market for a far cheaper per unit cost. Its also known a very large number of the weapons seized by the Mexican government are traceable to USDOS sales to various governments in Central America and Mexico. But we haven't heard anything about this issue from our own government. In short, a hairy connundrum. So let's shave it with Occam's Razor.

The cartels have a vested interest in keeping their supply lines direct, cheap and secure. OFF/GW meets none of those criterium. No one can argue the Cartels don't act - often with lethality - in their own best interests.

OTOH, gun contol/prohibition groups worldwide have a vested interest in creating situations supportive of their pogrom of private disarmament. Our President recently assured Sarah Brady he was working "under the radar" on gun control. He and USAG Holder both made statements supportive of finding ways to enhance gun control at least as far back as 3/09. The President has a long "anti-gun" history, being a past board member of the Joyce Foundation, and voting for every anti-gun measure that came his way as a member of the IL legislature. His administration has been characterized by a series of executive fiats and actions of dubious legality. So creating a scenario furthering his objectives is more reasonable than un. Plus, he had a ready-made vehicle from his predecessor's administration.

Operation Fast and Furious was created during the G. H. Bush administration. The former President apparently took personal interest in stopping the southward flow of arms. During this phase straw purchasers were prosecuted and guns interdicted. But what better sitution could the Obama Administration be handed ? All they had to do was order field agents not to interdict the guns, thereby insuring increased trafficing and mayhem on both sides of the border, while going through standard investigative motions. Now here I'm just guessing, but its reported ATF agents were ignorant of other players on the field. FBI and DHS played a role in financing and developing "snitiches" making the straw purchases and handing over the guns to others. Both of these threads lead back to DOJ and AG Holder; the same Holder that testified to Rep. Issa's committee he had "no direct knowledge" of OFF and PGW.

Y'all can connect the dots. >MW

aafasano 07-15-2011 03:45 AM

[QUOTE=easterner123;540983]This is a great point. Why risk going through the United States with weapons when they can be so easily had from South America, which is flooded with cheap soviet style weapons, as well as weapons we gave "freedom fighters" that were against communism during the cold war, and now no longer have an enemy to fight?

Illegal AKs are 1) Full auto 2) Much cheaper and 3) Available in bulk.

You're making too much sense. But the feds claim the drug pushers are coming north and buying expensive semi auto rifles.


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