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Purchase question. (background checks)

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Old 05-07-2012, 07:25 PM   #11
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Non-attorney blabbermouth here: It is my understanding that it isn't just a "felony" that can hold you back at background check time, but any crime punishable by a year or more in jail (not that you got that sentence but that it was possible).

Personally, i would try to buy and then have an attorney question the refusal, but again, i am not an attorney. Bottom of page 5 doesn't look good for your buddy.
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Last edited by orangello; 05-07-2012 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:15 PM   #12
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Your friend is probably not eligible to posses a firearm.

With thousands of dollars in attorney fees he may or may not be able to undo the above.

If he is ever caught in possession of a firearm, he will probably get to do some time. (don't take him to the range until his status is confirmed)
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:55 PM   #13
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I'm assuming he was charged as an adult? If not minors records should should be exsponged.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:58 PM   #14
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He will most likely be delayed and will have to contact the ATF and will have to appeal it. Then if it keeps happening he will have to get a permit to purchase or a UPIN number provided by the ATF so he will no longer have to worry about being delayed again.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:11 PM   #15
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I got into something like this when I was 17 also, if they charged him as a minor and no weapons or any violence was involved he is fine. There is absolutely nothing to worry about, it has been expunged.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:25 PM   #16
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#1. We ain't lawyers (am skilled labor ) He needs a lawyer

#2. If you read the Form 4473, question 11c (and the instructions for 11c on page 4) they refer to conviction of a crime that has a penalty of more than 1 year in prison. Teddy Kennedy was unable to buy a firearm- his conviction in the drowning of Mary Jo carried a possible sentence of more than 1 year- even tho Teddy never served a day. Read a 4473 HERE:

#3. Juvenile records are not as sealed as you might think for law enforcement purposes. There is a reference to being found "not innocent" of a charge that, IF COMMITTED BY AN ADULT would be a felony.

Free advice- if it 'twere me, would go find an attorney and see about applying to the courts for an EXPUNGEMENT of that juvenile charge. It can come up in other things. Like clearances. Bonding.
What we have here is... failure- to communicate.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:20 AM   #17
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you can be convicted of a felony and still not have served time. this is the discretion of the judges ruling in the case. an arrest isn't a conviction, but if you go to court and are not acquitted of the charges, even if you are released for say, time served or recieve probation. then as far as the BATF and the 4473 form, it's a conviction and the only way to rid yourself of it will be to have an attorney get the record expunged. this is why i point out get an attorney to handle this and no it will be probably expensive, but worth it in the long run for peace of mind and knowing that everything is above board and legal.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:07 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by UrbanNinja View Post
He was not in the car while it was being stolen. He got in unknowingly almost an hour after it happened.

I'm assuming this is the reason he only got the conspiracy charge. Still trying to find out the full details of what happened.
Soo, he got into the back seat of a car driven by someone

he knew so casually that he didn't realize that this car didn't

belong to him, and the subject never came up during the ride.

OKAY, it's possible, although I've personally never been in

a car's back seat of a person I didn't know.

I don't know anything about the actual circumstances, but I

imagine, initially, this guy had a tough time explaining this in court.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:35 PM   #19
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I am not a lawyer, but I will share my neighbors similar story.
Last year he went to the LGS and bought a 1911. He got a call on the third day that there was an issue with his background check. When he was 17 he assaulted an officer, never did time but got probation.
He could not get any information regarding his record without a lawyer. It cost him $1,000 and took 3 months to get his juvie record sealed and expunged, then another 2 months before his record was updated.
Actions as a minor are not always sealed and expunged.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:08 PM   #20
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Here's where I see the issue at. First, it was a felony conviction. Second, Pa. is a strong legal state where felony convictions create a situation where it is traditionally difficult to regain gun rights in, if not impossible. I personally know of one adult that was convicted under RICO and was granted his rights back by both a Federal judge and a Commonwealth judge just to have his rights revoked again under extreme pressure by the ATF to the Federal judge. They found out about the bench ruling when he attempted to get his CCW. Both judges are well known here and have impeccable reputations.

The question was raised to whether he was charged in juvenile court or as an adult. This may or not have an impact as c3 has correctly stated. The assumption that all juvenile records get expunged is a falacy. If he was charged and convicted as an adult, he has no gun rights in Pa. To know for sure where he stands, the first thing he needs to do is to have his background ran. This will tell the tale for sure. If I were him, I'd pursue this avenue as a felony conviction can impact his life much more significantly than just for gun rights. If it does show up in the check, I'd then confer with a good lawyer well versed in this avenue of law, an obviously better one than represented him during his ordeal, and see what, if any, options are available to him now. The expense of an attorney may be money well spent as this blotch on his record can haunt him for the rest of his life.

Last edited by wjnfirearms; 05-08-2012 at 01:11 PM.
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