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Old 03-25-2008, 05:30 PM   #21
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Good idea, in theory, piss poor execution. I am all for getting guns out of the hands of people that shouldn't have them, but a jack booted approach like this should NEVER be allowed. Once that Pandora's Box is opened it would be difficult to put the brakes on and return to sanity.

Hey Boston PD - How about you get one of those big riot vans you use and drive through some neighborhoods. Make some announcements about amnesty for gun trade ins. Let the people search their own homes and decide if they would like to turn in the weapons to you with no questions asked. Get some companies on board, offer to give away some free swag, but bring it to the neighborhoods instead of making everyone travel to you. See if the community receives that message a little better....

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Old 03-25-2008, 08:06 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
Good idea, in theory, piss poor execution. I am all for getting guns out of the hands of people that shouldn't have them...
Respectfully, who determines who "the people that shouldn't have them" are?

As many times as I read 2A, I don't see limits on either who may own arms or the types of arms that may be owned.

(Now before anyone jumps on me with "Well, you wouldn't want a multiple-robbery felon serial killer child molesting nun-raping sociopath to get hold of a gun, would you?!" I would answer "No, of course not. Because the piece of sh*t should have been hanged after the first offense."

The good guys should not be constrained by our reluctance to properly deal with the bad guys.)
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:20 PM   #23
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Respectfully, who determines who "the people that shouldn't have them" are?
No, I agree with you - you can't have a blanket statement for an entire populous, but even the most hardcore gun advocate has to realize that not EVERYONE on this planet should own a weapon. There are people out there that have elected to give up that right based on past behavior and there are people, quite frankly, who scare the F**K out of me because they can, and frequently do, have weapons. I am talking about the type of people that are not trained with the weapons they purchase, don't put in the time of the effort to get proper safety training, don't store the weapon is a safe manner, don't respect the weapon for anything more than a "bigger stick than you have" and get off on some feeling of "power" based shearly from the "I can take your life any time I want" mentality.

Now,for the record, as I would like to illustrate for you whom, in my opinion, should not have a weapon, here are some examples:

If you are felon who got off light on some sweetheart deal because you rolled over on some bigger scum bags, then get probation and picked up a weapon you had stashed at a buddies, only to commit smash and grabs or carjackings, home invasions, convienence store robberies, etc. You shouldn't have a weapon.

If you have a violent and documented criminal past at all, as in, "We the jury find the defendant" You shouldn't have a weapon.

Mentally unstable - check, probably not a good idea.

If you chose a life of crime and you have been convicted, you have lost your legal right to own a weapon, so you should not have a weapon

You probably shouldn't have a weapon

You shouldn't have a weapon

You probably shouldn't have a weapon

You ought to be thrown UNDER the friggin jail and not allowed to have a weapon any further

Now, some of these are comical, but keep in mind that these are people who were handling live weapons, in some cases they hurt themselves, in some cases innocent people could have been hurt. I put these up to make a point that these people, in some cases don't know any better, in some cases are too stupid or are too arrogant to practice safe handling of their firearms, are a threat to all of us because they represent "The Gun Owners of America". To the Left and to those outside the US, these people are the "average" US gun owner. I don't know about you, but these people scare me. Not only do I not want to be guilty by association with these morons, but I don't want to get my @ss shot off by someone at the pistol range who just watched Bad Boys for the 19th time and wants to "bust some caps". I am not talking about an accident and you lose all your rights to ever own a firearm. I am not talking about someone who makes an honest to goodness mistake. I am talking about people that do not have the sense of personal responsibility to safely handle/posses a device that doesn't have a recall/restart button.

I guarantee you, no one on the Left side of the aisle is going to point to a father of two, who goes to work every day, pays his bills, takes his boys hunting on a licensed patch of land with "sporting" rifles a couple of times a year, takes his wife to the range on Weds. nights for target practice, keeps his legally obtained weapons in a gunsafe and has never had so much as a traffic ticket as their poster boy to ban all firearms.

They are going to take examples like those idiots who shot up North Hollywood in that Bank of America hold up and say "These are the reasons no one should possess automatic feeding rifles and hi capacity handguns". "These are the kinds of things that happen when the "general public" is allowed access to "military hardware". Nevermind the fact that both Larry Phillips, Jr. and Emil Matasareanu were BOTH convicted felons and should not have been 1) together in the first place, let alone 2) in possession of anything more harmful than a potato peeler.

I firmly believe in the Right to Keep and Bear Arms - while that is a right, it does come with great responsibility, not only to uphold it as a tradition for our future children, but also not to let a bunch of Muppets from the shallow end of the gene pool f**k it up for all of us.

D
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Old 03-26-2008, 01:08 AM   #24
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I forget who mentioned it or where on this forum it came up, but it was along the lines of the governmemt "testing" us to see what we will let them get away with. If the people let them follow through, the police will plan a much larger attack or plan a small, more intrusive attack. Euther way, the outcome will not be good. It's the little things like this that are going to make us all bend over and listen for the snap of a rubber glove as it is pulled into position.

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Old 03-26-2008, 09:27 AM   #25
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Dillinger, for the most part we probably agree. The idea of letting people who commit violent crimes off for any reason is the problem. Recidivism among violent criminals released into society is high. Violent criminals executed after the first offense always have a recidivism rate of 0.

But denying that these people be allowed guns while letting them back into society does two things: it forces them to go underground to get guns which they certainly will do, and it creates a second class of citizen in this country which is wrong.

Training and discipline are important. Should training be mandatory? You might be able to spin "well-regulated" to imply mandatory training, but it might be a stretch.

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Old 03-26-2008, 01:55 PM   #26
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bkt - I believe that we see this problem in the same light, it might be verbage and the internet getting in the way.

I firmly believe in the quickest path to execution for anyone found guilty of a criminal offense warranting the death penalty. The problem exists that there are too many people who have been railroaded through a corrupt system up to this point to be able to just fire up the Guillotine and start a long line. While I personally don't have a problem with it, the bleeding heart masses will, so you will never get anywhere.

You are 100% correct - Ted Bundy is no longer hurting anyone. Dahmer, the same. Gacy - check. Chikatillo in Russia, same body count currently - zero. All proven guilty, all sentenced to death, all dead and hurting no one. Once a criminal is proven guilty, and is put to death in accordance with his sentence, he commits zero future crimes. But society will not allow that to happen here in the US, because we are supposed to be "less barbaric" than "those other countries".

Take China for example. "Guilty" You now, allegedly, have seven days and then the government puts a round in the back of your head and sends your family a bill for the bullet and the cremation. Over population has forced the hands of the criminal, to commit more daring crimes to be able to make their way through life, and the government to deal with more brazen criminals because there are just too many friggin people in one "little" area within their borders. You won't see that happen here until every jail is so full of people that "semi hard" monsters with 50 year sentences are getting processed in and out on a daily basis to make room for the "real" criminals.

I don't advocate allowing any criminal back into society once they have gone so far, as deemed by the justice system and our collective of laws/social values, that they shouldn't be allowed out. If you get a 50 year sentence, and you are 60, odds are good you ain't getting out. Sorry. You made a choice and it didn't work out for you. Better luck next life.

As for firearms in the hands of the masses - the only way to truly insure that the Left doesn't have poster children to point at, like people in those videos, like the next idiot who runs up into a school, or a mall, or a church, is more responsible gun ownership.

I don't care who you are, everyone on this forum knows someone, somewhere, that they have gone shooting with, or see at the gun range, or what have you, that just isn't a safe & responsible gun owner. Do any of us do anything about it? "Hey Bob, you know, you probably shouldn't store your gun in the nightstand with two teenage kids running around" "Yeah, well F/U - It's my house and I will do what I want" so you go back to keeping your mouth shut and it goes on and on.

I am not saying everyone MUST go through MANDATORY training to be able to own a weapon. You can't do that. The sheer dynamic of "You are not going to tell me what to do" prevents that from ever occuring. Hell, I subscribe to that theory everytime there is a new procedure that gets in the way of production at work. But what I am saying is that as a gun owner, in the good old U.S. of A. - I personally take it as my responsibility to make sure my weapons are stored safely, I personally take it as a responsibility not to pull my "piece out and wave it around" when sh*t doesn't go my way in traffic.

I am talking about all firearms owners taking responsibility, not only for ourselves, but for other people they may know, so no one is the next poster boy for the Left. Spread good, sound, advice to those that maybe don't have your background or training. Educate people in the fact that firearms aren't the enemy. But you can't do that if you continue to turn a blind eye to the fact that some people, routinely, make decisions with their firearms that you or I would NEVER do.

Ownership has a responsibility every bit as important as the Right that guarantees it.

D

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Old 03-26-2008, 04:12 PM   #27
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I can't argue with that.

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Old 03-27-2008, 04:04 AM   #28
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wow Dillinger

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