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Old 03-28-2013, 07:10 PM   #211
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TW...

I respect your question but I'm not sure what purpose is served by demanding answers to "hypothetical's" this deep in the weeds.

The goal, "in my mind", is to prevent LEO's from needing to face this question should the laws change, and enlist there support in "ensuring" that the laws do NOT change.

For many of us LAC's, our decision is already made... if forced, we will defend ourselves, our property, and our oaths.

Preventing it from ever becoming a reality is the goal... and getting LEO's to consider it now, and get involved now, is the path.

Tack


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Originally Posted by texaswoodworker View Post
You didn't really answer my question. Your trying to avoid it by saying what you have done (very small things in comparison), or by putting it off on the ATF.

AS said before, I don't think you would. You won't even speak out against unconstitutional laws because you fear what may happen. THIS is taking that to a whole new level. You would likely loose your job if anyone found out, and you could possibly end up in jail.

Lets put this in a different situation. One much harder to avoid.

The is a group of people in possession of several illegal firearms. This group of people have never committed a crime before, and there is no reson to believe they will. They just happen to have guns that the Governemnt sees as illegal.
YOU are ordered by you superiors to confiscate these guns, and arrest this group of people. Will you do it, or will you quit your job instead?
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:15 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
TW...

I respect your question but I'm not sure what purpose is served by demanding answers to "hypothetical's" this deep in the weeds.

The goal, "in my mind", is to prevent LEO's from needing to face this question should the laws change, and enlist there support in "ensuring" that the laws do NOT change.

For many of us LAC's, our decision is already made... if forced, we will defend ourselves, our property, and our oaths.

Preventing it from ever becoming a reality is the goal... and getting LEO's to consider it now, and get involved now, is the path.

Tack
Yes, but it's nice to know that if they are faced with a situtaion like that, they will choose to do the right thing.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:19 PM   #213
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Yes, but it's nice to know that if they are faced with a situtaion like that, they will choose to do the right thing.
I agree, but being a Vet myself, I can understand someone not wishing to debate hypotheticals.

Had my LT ordered me to kill innocent civilian I'd have swung around and put a 5.56 through his nugget... we did not have internet forums at that time but if we had, I certainly would not have typed it out while I was still serving.

Tack
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:19 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texaswoodworker

You didn't really answer my question. Your trying to avoid it by saying what you have done (very small things in comparison), or by putting it off on the ATF.

AS said before, I don't think you would. You won't even speak out against unconstitutional laws because you fear what may happen. THIS is taking that to a whole new level. You would likely loose your job if anyone found out, and you could possibly end up in jail.

Lets put this in a different situation. One much harder to avoid.

The is a group of people in possession of several illegal firearms. This group of people have never committed a crime before, and there is no reson to believe they will. They just happen to have guns that the Governemnt sees as illegal.
YOU are ordered by you superiors to confiscate these guns, and arrest this group of people. Will you do it, or will you quit your job instead?
I tried to answer your question in a realistic and real world scenario. I'm not putting on my tin hat to answer your questions. I defend people and their constitutional rights. If you have "illegal" guns and you are a LAC people like me will never get wind of it. Your examples are silly and far fetched. My job involves hundreds of laws and thousands of variables. I did my best to explain my feelings on guns and my job. Your not going to back me into a corner because in the real world decisions aren't that black and white. Your just trying to paint me in a bad light.

What tac said is VERY true and should be listened to by all
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:42 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
I agree, but being a Vet myself, I can understand someone not wishing to debate hypotheticals.

Had my LT ordered me to kill innocent civilian I'd have swung around and put a 5.56 through his nugget... we did not have internet forums at that time but if we had, I certainly would not have typed it out while I was still serving.

Tack
Thats understandable.

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Originally Posted by j4454 View Post
I tried to answer your question in a realistic and real world scenario. I'm not putting on my tin hat to answer your questions. I defend people and their constitutional rights. If you have "illegal" guns and you are a LAC people like me will never get wind of it. Your examples are silly and far fetched. My job involves hundreds of laws and thousands of variables. I did my best to explain my feelings on guns and my job. Your not going to back me into a corner because in the real world decisions aren't that black and white. Your just trying to paint me in a bad light.

What tac said is VERY true and should be listened to by all
In other words, you don't want to say what you would do in those situations.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:47 PM   #216
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In other words, you don't want to say what you would do in those situations.[/QUOTE]

He is the middleman. The law makers should be the focus of your witch hunt.

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Old 03-28-2013, 07:57 PM   #217
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j4454,
I am largely a product of my environment insofar as my attitude towards LEOs is concerned. Perhaps that will explain a bit. I live in the Santa Cruz Mountains surrounding Silicon Valley. This is one of the bastions of the liberal/progressive movement. The cops are not immune to the prevailing political attitudes that drive the economy around here. The Sheriff of my county is a pinko commie democrat whom I have worked very hard to unseat in the one election where she was challenged just a few years ago. Unfortunately our efforts failed. Her department is rife with her political yes-men, and the ones who would dare speak out against her are very few (and those that have generally have seen abruptly shortened careers). I have not seen any press releases from her office on the current gun control issues, and her silence undoubtedly signals her support. Getting a concealed carry permit in this county is impossible for the average citizen such as myself, regardless of the need.

A few of the deputies have let down their guard a bit when they have gotten to know me, and they do support the 2A crowd, but if it comes down to registration and confiscation I am not so sure they will. They have said to me that "We will pass your place by" if it comes to that. But what if they have superiors with them who say to break down my door? What will they do then? I pray we do not find out.

As to my Nuremburg comment, you all know what I meant. My grandparents emigrated here from Germany in 1906 and 1917. It was a good time to leave Germany and they left for the right reasons. As Germans they were not welcomed here, so that was a very difficult time. The police and military that did not leave found themselves in a position where they either followed orders or died and some went to the extermination camps. That is a difficult choice to be sure. I am not saying that is where we are headed today, but there are many similarities to date.

So, my hope is the same as many others here. I would like to see and hear more of a commitment form LEOs (including their leadership) to the Constitution. I do not see that here in my neck of the woods.

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Old 03-28-2013, 08:16 PM   #218
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In other words, you don't want to say what you would do in those situations.

He is the middleman. The law makers should be the focus of your witch hunt.
Without the middleman, the law makes have NO power. Should the middleman refuse to do what the law makers say, then the law makers are screwed.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:21 PM   #219
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Without the middleman, the law makes have NO power. Should the middleman refuse to do what the law makers say, then the law makers are screwed.
Bingo!

But I would not expect them to state it here. Doing so could ensure there replaced with someone who would not refuse...

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Old 03-28-2013, 08:22 PM   #220
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The only mandatory arrests are domestic assault of any degree. We are still very much allowed the discretion of who we arrest. I have never been told to go arrest anyone by a supervisor.

I'll take a stance and quit my job as soon as you do the same and move out of your liberal state Viking.

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