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Old 03-27-2013, 05:54 AM   #161
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Guys lets face it. Tack is making sense as usual. Would anyone here accept that a law, any law, has exemptions on who has to follow it?

Any LAC within the US should have the same rules applied to them. Notice I said LAC within the US and not criminals or MIL who are outside of this country. MIL inside the US and LEOs are just the same as us civilians, LACs.

Yes, LEOs do a dangerous job, but a badge doesn't make them a "super citizen". We both face the same threats on the street and at home. I don't have 20 or more armed buddies I can call at a moments notice and I don't have a department budget that allows me to buy/maintain equipment and to continue my training. I realize LEOs need armed buddies and dept budgets, but they should never be exempt from laws that I have to follow.

I'm not bashing LEOs in any way, I'm just saying that we both need protection from evil and it's not right to have laws which make me weaker while they(LEOs) are exempt. Again, same threats should equal the same tools to stop these threats.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:25 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by CHLChris View Post
Many gun companies are announcing new policies to limit sales to law-enforcement agencies in anti-gun states to only the items that the regular citizens in that state are allowed to own.

Position 1: Law enforcement officers have a very difficult and demanding job that can be very unsafe. They should be able to have access to any and every firearm product they need. Police should be exempt.

Position 2: Law enforcement is an arm of the state and should never be allowed to be more powerful than the general public. They should only have access to the same firepower that the citizenry has access to. Police should have the same limits.
When I first read this post, I almost responded then. Instead, i gave myself some time to think about the question, and how I would answer it. After some very deep thinking on this question, I have come to the conclusion that I can not answer it with a no or a yes. It is not a black and white issue. Yes, LEOs put their lives on the line every day, some of them are decent people, some are not. I have known both types, and I have several friends and family members who, or were LEOs.

Can I honestly say that every interaction with the police has been good? No, but not all of them have been bad either. Please take into account that my answer is based on my own experiences with the LEOs in my area, not a generalization regarding all LEOS.

I would have to add a third choice, call it answer 1.5. i do not believe that the weapons at the disposal of law enforcement should be limited to the level of the general public, but I do not believe that LEOs should have free reign in the weapons they use either. I would support slightly less restrictions on LEOs, but greater responsibility along with those weapons. In other words, if some crackhead robs a local store at gun point, and the police have him cornered, they should not be covering him with an M-16 with a 100 round beta mag, but an AR-15 with a 20 rounder, when the general public is restricted to 10 rounds, is not going to far.

Now, if a shoot out ensues, and an innocent bystander is hit by a round from an officer's firearm, especially if it can be proven that person was not in the area of the gun fight, there should be stiffer penalties for said officer. In other words, with freater firepower, comes greater responsibility. That shooting in NYC last year, where the NYPD fired over 40 shots at the attacker, and the kid who was defending himself (took the attacker's gun, and was covering him, got shot 20 some times and lived) is a situation similar to what I am describing here. The officer's want immunity for their testimony, and the kid is up on charges. More responsibility = no immunity. You screwed up, you take the fall, no thin blue line BS. Man up.

Note: These are my opinions, I am entitled to them under the first amendment as are you to your's. I have seen behavior in this thread that is bordering on a personal attack from more than one member. Those who have done so, shame on you! Let's all try to be civil here please. i am quite sure that the mods do not enjoy having to lock threads, and hit folks with the ban hammer. When they do, every one of us loses the chance to chime in with our own feelings on the matter being discussed. So please, express your opinions freely, that is what this site is about, but do so nicely. Thank you.


P.S. Mods. I'm not trying to steal your jobs, just trying to help out a little, and save you some work.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:30 AM   #163
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:34 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kfox75

Note: These are my opinions, I am entitled to them under the first amendment as are you to your's. I have seen behavior in this thread that is bordering on a personal attack from more than one member. Those who have done so, shame on you! Let's all try to be civil here please. i am quite sure that the mods do not enjoy having to lock threads, and hit folks with the ban hammer. When they do, every one of us loses the chance to chime in with our own feelings on the matter being discussed. So please, express your opinions freely, that is what this site is about, but do so nicely. Thank you.
Very well said
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:43 AM   #165
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Very well said
Thanks McCool. Just rying to save some headaches for the mods and us both.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:47 AM   #166
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I agree, in fact they are in less danger, they ain't the ones who have to face the home invader, they only have to report what happens
Have to disagree. The fact is that cops are exposed to more danger daily due to the fact that they're marked just for wearing a uniform and are considered the threat where the perp is concerned. While off duty they too can become the victims of home invasions and car jackings, which includes their families, as well. They are usually assigned to locations for patrol where crimes are more likely to take place. When a crime is taking place, or about to take place it's the cop that has to respond towards it where the civilian usually retreats for safety.

Past history showed that police for the large part, at least where I was assigned, while on patrol were usually equipped with inferior firepower. I feel all, which includes civilians should have the advantage of being able to use weapons that would at least put them on even footing if a threat is being posed to them. This includes hi cap mags.

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Old 03-27-2013, 08:12 AM   #167
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Exactly Gunsmoke, inferior firepower. There are WAY more civilian LACs than LEO LACs. We face the same threats in the course of life, so why would anybody(politicians) want to put us(LACs LEO/civilian) at a disadvantage?

If I'm forced to use a non-standard low capacity magazine in the course of my life, then EVERY other LAC should be under the same restrictions.

Of course there will always be one exception...criminals. LEOs are not criminals, so why would they be an exception?
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:13 AM   #168
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Yet you can wrap your mind around disarming a law abiding citizen?

Really, what is the difference? Answer: A badge.

I have known many LEOs, some of them are decent people and good friends. Most of them are thugs and bullies. My neighbor's son entered the local Sheriff's Junior Deputy program a couple of years ago. He quit because (in his words) "all of the other JDs are thugs and bullies, and so are the mentor Deputies".

Not too long ago I was driving home from one of my rental properties (the road denotes the county line) and came across a deputy in his patrol car parked in one of the many parking lots for the trail systems that run through the area, something that is not a common sight in this rural area. Since there had been a string of burglaries recently (and I had been a minor victim of this) I pulled over and parked to thank the deputy for patrolling the area got out of my truck (in full view of the deputy the whole time) and walked over in front of his car so he could see that I wanted to talk to him (he was on his radio at the time). He made eye contact but made no other sign of acknowledgement towards me, then exited his patrol car, walked around my truck while continuing to ignore my presence, ran my plates on my truck and waited for a response from the dispatcher before he walked back over to me (still standing in front of his car on the sidewalk) and asked what he could help me with.

I asked him if it was really necessary for him to run my plates before talking to me and he asked if I had a problem with that. I said yes, but that was not the reason why I had stopped (that made him think for a second), and I then said that I had stopped to say I was happy to see the Sheriff's office showing a presence in the area given the recent string of burglaries, but now had second thoughts after his little display. He asked if that was all and I said "pretty much." He then asked for my name to which I replied "I think you have enough information. Have a nice day. Dick."

He got all puffed up and said "Excuse me?" to which I said "You heard me.", I got in my truck and drove home. He followed me the the whole way there (12 miles) and then pulled over in my turnout and sat there for about 20 minutes in front of my driveway.

Think he was trying to intimidate me? And for what reason?

As to the burglaries, the SO did absolutely nothing for us aside from taking reports when we called them (only two of which they showed up on sight for). The neighbors and I did 100% of the work in investigating what happened, identifying the two crackheads that were responsible and recovering a large portion of the stolen items (some of which they has dumped in the woods, including a laptop computer that they had changed the password and usernames on (to their own given names no less!) and downloaded pictures from a stolen camera that showed them inside one of the houses that they burglarized, fully implicating themselves in the process- but I digress), and then they made the arrests when we presented this preponderance of evidence to the SO.

One or two of nearly a dozen deputies we dealt with in the whole process was actually decent to us, the victims. The rest were rude and dismissive, as though we were wasting their time with our petty problems. That is not a good ratio.

Now, I have had a couple of very positive encounters with the Sheriff's office too, but the negative encounters have by far prevailed. And I am in no way a trouble-maker or the type of person they would profile as someone that would give them trouble. No arrests, no tickets, no tattoos, no gang affiliations, no trouble at all. I am a model citizen. Maybe a tad too independent for their liking though.

Do I have a problem with the cops? Only the *******s.
When did I say I was ok with disarming citizens? Don't put words in my mouth.

Second I never mentioned anything about legislation saying we should or shouldn't be more or less armed. I'm saying it makes little to no logical sense to disarm those who actually deal with the violence daily. Again if that's how you feel fine it will never happen so it doesn't.

Lastly thank you for your lengthy story on your encounter with police. Your experience is limited at best. Now I'm going to tell a two page story on my dealings with the few douche bag constructions workers and rental property owners just so I can strengthen my point in my own mind; even though it has no place in the conversation

I'm truly sorry an officer hurt your feelings so badly......
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:17 AM   #169
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J44: You are attacking Tack again, not an acceptable response. I'll ask again.

What law, any law, is ok to force on us LACs that isn't forced on LEOs?
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:31 PM   #170
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When did I say I was ok with disarming citizens? Don't put words in my mouth.
I was not "putting words in (your) mouth", but when you said that you "can't wrap your mind around disarming LEOs" it left the distinct and indelible impression that you had no problem with the disarming of citizens while exempting LEOs. If I am wrong about that then I apologize.

Quote:
Second I never mentioned anything about legislation saying we should or shouldn't be more or less armed. I'm saying it makes little to no logical sense to disarm those who actually deal with the violence daily. Again if that's how you feel fine it will never happen so it doesn't.

Lastly thank you for your lengthy story on your encounter with police. Your experience is limited at best. Now I'm going to tell a two page story on my dealings with the few douche bag constructions workers and rental property owners just so I can strengthen my point in my own mind; even though it has no place in the conversation

I'm truly sorry an officer hurt your feelings so badly......
My story is but one of many. I am very active in my community and have had, as I said, many such encounters. Your stories on douchebag construction workers and rental property owners would no doubt be from the point of view of the authority figure who is drunk on his power over these unarmed citizens. Go ahead and tell your stories, that way we can better judge what a douchebag you really are. Dick.

The officer did not "hurt my feelings". I was illustrating the fact that abuse of authority, bullying and thuggery on the part of LEOs in a situation where there is absolutely no call whatsoever for such brutish behavior does happen. It has happened to me many times, this was one of several encounters that I could iterate here. I would be happy to do so but I feel I have gotten my point across to those who have the critical thinking skills to understand my intent. That cop, and you, obviously do not.
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