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Old 05-26-2011, 02:12 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Gojubrian View Post
There's a difference in requesting to see a permit and what these cops did.
I'm saying that even stopping someone and asking to see a permit should be illegal. Cops can't just pull you over to verify you have a valid drivers license, they have to have a valid reason like seeing you speed before pulling you over. Unless this guy was doing something illegal he should have never been stopped in the first place.
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Old 05-26-2011, 02:30 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Boggy5 View Post
I don't have a problem with the officer pointing the gun at him, I would expect an officer to have a gun on me until I proved I was doing so legally, and then be sent on my marry way.
Really now? I have a very large problem with having a gun pointed at me when I'm not violating any law. The cop was obviously unaware of the law, and he was way out of line. The man offered multiple times to show him his permit. He even pointed out the directive that allows him that right. Ignorance is no excuse.
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:08 AM   #13
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And they are gonna try and prosecute this guy? Wow...

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Old 05-26-2011, 04:42 AM   #14
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And they are gonna try and prosecute this guy? Wow...
Look what NYC did to Bernie Geotz and Plaxico Buress.

Geotz was a clear case of self defense and they threw the book at him. And for what? Possessing a non licensed firearm. Keep in mind at that time NYC was almost out of control with crime, whole neighborhoods where LE would not go into after dark. A cop in the subways after dark at that time, almost unheard of.

Sure Burress is a puts and an idiot but who got hurt? Again, what was the crime ... a non licensed firearm. Not to mention supposedly he has been a model prisoner and been denied early release on more than one occasion. Didn't I just read an article that Cali is being forced by the SCOTUS to release something like 80k prisoners because of so called "unsatisfactory conditions"?

It is no surprise that Philly is going after him. Really I don't think they have a choice, either they drop the hammer on him and make him the bad guy or the Philly PD are going to get blasted with a civil suit. Not to mention at some point in time if they continue with their ways the Feds could step in and drop the hammer on them. This sounds like a clear case of blame/smear the victim so the criminal doesn't look so bad.

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Old 05-26-2011, 04:59 AM   #15
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Look what NYC did to Bernie Geotz and Plaxico Buress.

Geotz was a clear case of self defense and they threw the book at him. And for what? Possessing a non licensed firearm. Keep in mind at that time NYC was almost out of control with crime, whole neighborhoods where LE would not go into after dark. A cop in the subways after dark at that time, almost unheard of.

Sure Burress is a puts and an idiot but who got hurt? Again, what was the crime ... a non licensed firearm. Not to mention supposedly he has been a model prisoner and been denied early release on more than one occasion. Didn't I just read an article that Cali is being forced by the SCOTUS to release something like 80k prisoners because of so called "unsatisfactory conditions"?

It is no surprise that Philly is going after him. Really I don't think they have a choice, either they drop the hammer on him and make him the bad guy or the Philly PD are going to get blasted with a civil suit. Not to mention at some point in time if they continue with their ways the Feds could step in and drop the hammer on them. This sounds like a clear case of blame/smear the victim so the criminal doesn't look so bad.

Yep. I hope his atty is a good one.
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:31 AM   #16
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This is a classic case of ignorance. Not only is this LEO ignorant of the law he is supposed to enforce (I am not saying LEOs are supposed to know EVERY law, but it would be good to know some of them!), but he is an ignorant SOB to boot! This is also a good example of the common attitude that gun control develops, people panic as soon as they see a gun and assume an armed person is a criminal.

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Old 05-26-2011, 01:19 PM   #17
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The irony here is that so many people say "The LEO cannot be expected to know every law", but the old adage "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" gets used against civilians all the time.

Seems to be that a professional LEO should know the laws (they are after all tasked with enforcement of those laws) and that they should be held to a higher standard. There is a reasonable expectation that any professional should have a proficiency in their chosen field.

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Old 05-26-2011, 02:28 PM   #18
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Another state I would gladly avoid and not even stop to piss on.

Ignorance of the law and a clear case of abuse of power. If the sight of an openly carried firearm threatens the security of a LEO that much, he has other underlying psychological issues, other than just safety concerns.

How many criminals freely open carry a firearm, to attract unwanted attention, to justify these LEO's paranoid actions?

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Old 05-26-2011, 05:07 PM   #19
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So in light of proof that Dougherty is a douche, you'd be OK with him having a gun on you if you're not doing anything wrong until you prove to the cop you're legal? I've got a big goddamn problem with that.
I guess until you're in the shoes of a police officer in a city where there is a lot of violence, and may have been shot at before; you can't really know how intense it might be seeing someone openly carrying a gun, which is why I think it's retarded to open carry and can't think of one good reason to do so.

"In light of the fact that Dougherty is a douche" - Now we're talking about hindsight. The way he handled the situation, yes, he's a douche. However, if a cop had his gun on me and told me to slowly get my permit and show it to him, and let me go and said have a nice day, I wouldn't consider him a douche. I haven't been in his shoes, I don't know if he's been shot at before. Now, if I was Fiorino and Dougherty pulled a gun on me again for the same thing, I'd sue his pants off.

And to the person who posted about the driver's license vs. CWP, that's a good argument in theory, but a gun is an immediate lethal weapon. A car, although it causes death in some situations, is not in the same class as a loaded gun. Just being Devil's advocate here...still not on the side of Dougherty though.
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:24 PM   #20
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The entire situation stems from this officer not knowing the laws he is sworn to enforce. That and the fact that he is an arsehole. If he had known the law about open carry, his reaction MAY have been different. Probably not since he is on a power trip.

As IGETEVEN said, how many criminals walk around openly carrying? I could understand the officer having a hand on his gun, and asking to see the permit, while asking the person to keep his hands clear of his weapon at all times. That to me would be the acceptable action. But again, it would only work if the LEO actually had an understanding of the laws. I'll bet he is fully versed in the parking laws!!

Now Philly is going to charge this guy with disorderly persons and what-ever-the-hell-else. I am sure it is just to make him out to be the bad guy after all.

If this LEO is so frightened at the sight of a gun, he may want to consider a different line of work!!

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