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People that use ccw as a license to kill

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Old 02-06-2012, 03:46 PM   #1
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Default People that use ccw as a license to kill

Here in Detroit, I have come across a few people who have the mentality that their CCW permit gives them a license to kill and get away with it. I was explaining to someone that if you provoke a situation, even verbally, to the point of violence, you can't then use your gun against someone and then claim self defense. This person believed that he could get away with saying whatever he wanted to another person to provoke them, and then if the person physically attacked him, he could then shoot them and not have to worry about jail.

I explained that it doesn't work that way and that a jury would probably be more sympathetic to someone illegally concealed carrying but had to use their weapon in a legitimate self defense situation, than someone who had legal paperwork to CCW and purposely put themselves in a situation to be able to use their gun. People who think like that hurt the cause for the rest of us.
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:54 PM   #2
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I know in NJ it is stipulated that you must be thoroughly familiar with existing law in regards to use of deadly force. If someone is using his/her CCW as a means to provoke or alarm then it is in the public's interest that it be revoked. IMHO
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:56 PM   #3
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BTW: if they use it to provoke someone and then murder that person I believe that would be considered pre-meditated murder.
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Old 02-06-2012, 04:08 PM   #4
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I stress if that (murder) was their intention in the 1st place.
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Old 02-06-2012, 04:08 PM   #5
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If you shoot someone- under ANY circumstances, it WILL be a life changing event. Even a "good" shooting.

In general, it is considered that an armed person has a responsibility to conduct themselves in a better manner than someone that is not. Anyone that thinks their CCW makes them into 007 has a wakeup call waiting for them.

However, this is valuable information to you. You are now aware that THIS person is an idiot. You are thereby enabled to distance yourself from the idiot, not place trust in their judgement in other matters, and possibly buy THEIR guns at distress sale prices when they need the money to hire the lawyer.
What we have here is... failure- to communicate.
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Old 02-06-2012, 04:18 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
In general, it is considered that an armed person has a responsibility to conduct themselves in a better manner than someone that is not.
Its been said time and time again... An armed society is a polite society.
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Old 02-06-2012, 04:21 PM   #7
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Wow, yet another reason to avoid Detroit. In 16 years of CCW I've never met another permitte with this kind of attitude. Were I you, I'd put a Lot of distance between myself and this guy. His mindset will likely lead to a catastrophic melt down and you do not want to be in the same Zip code when it happens.

I've had dozens of people seek my council when considering a CCW. Beyond the safety advice and the "which gun should I get" questions I allways work my philosophy into the conversation and the philosophy is this:

"Having a gun DOES NOT make you a cop anymore than having a fire extinguisher makes you a Fireman. Both are simply tools who's purpose is to help you deal with a potentially deadly situation UNTIL PROFFESIONAL help arrives."

If they do not enthusiastically embrace my mindset, the advice ends as does the relationship. Of course that's never happened to me. Everyone I've counseled were already known to me as stand up solid citizens and all have gone on to CCW without getting themselves in any trouble.

Yes, concealed means concealed but we all have friends and family who know out status and it is incumbent on ALL of us to act as good ambassadors for our cause. We want those around us who know our status to be comforted by the fact that we are armed, not intimidated.

Feel free to share these ideas with you fiend and if he scoffs, go the other way quickly and share your concern with an LEO.

It's far better for all of us if his headline reads "Revoked CCW permitte was arrested for murder today".


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Old 02-06-2012, 04:55 PM   #8
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Some people are just not temperamentally suited to be carrying a gun.

#3 on Massad Ayoob's Ten Commandments of Concealed Carry......

Don’t Let The Gun Make You Reckless

The courts have shown time and time again that a person carrying a gun is held to a higher standard of conduct than an unarmed person. Carrying a gun does not give you a license to walk around in Central Park at 3:00am trolling for muggers. It also means that when presented with a potentially violent situation you do everything possible to avoid and/or defuse the situation. If someone attempts to provoke a fight, you turn and walk away, no matter who many times they throw insults at you..."Hey come back and fight like a man you *****". Just keep walking. If you are involved in a shooting, it has to be absolutely clear to anyone with an IQ of 3 (liberals) that the situation was forced on you and you had no other choice.

I had the benefit that my CCW instructor is a retired lawyer. And he hammered on this aspect of CCW, over and over. There was a time if a guy cut me off on the highway, I'd give him several varieties of negative feedback. Not so any more. I just swallow my pride and let it go. I have to.

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Old 02-06-2012, 08:52 PM   #9
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In Florida, as I understand it, you may only use a firearm to stop a "deadly" threat. Unless you are old, or disabled, where the concept of "disparity of force" enters the situation, you better not shoot anyone who is not attacking you with "deadly force". Generally, in public, if I tell you I am going to kill you, even in front of witnesses, you can't legally shoot me, unless and until I also show you the means to carry out the threat and the intention to actually do so. If I threaten to whip your ugly butt and proceed to do the same, you still can't shoot me. An ass whoopin with a set of fist is not a "deadly threat" and would not warrant drawing a firearm.

In you are in your home or auto, some of these situations change in a hurry as we have a "Castle Doctrine" that makes it much easier to legally defend your space, but that is a long way from the situation you described.

The person who attempts to bait someone into a situation where he can kill them is a psycopath and does not need to be within 100 feet of a firearm, unless it is sitting on the hip of the person who carries him away.
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”
― George Orwell, 1984
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:02 PM   #10
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This CCW holder is trolling for a bad shoot and headed for trouble.

I'd distance myself from them, if possible, before they do something

you'll regret.

I feel the urge to digress to the Movie Zombieland here,

because many of the same rules apply to CCW holders.

"Don't be a hero."



"Check the back seat."

"Beware of bathrooms." etc.

What my CCW permit has given me is a heightened sense of awareness,

specifically towards avoiding bad situations which would

precipitate a need to shoot.

As well as a new tolerance for others, who share brain cells,

act arrogantly rude, and obviously belong in a state like NJ...
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