Paperwork W/Background Checks..What's the point?
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Legal and Activism > Paperwork W/Background Checks..What's the point?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-30-2014, 09:52 PM   #1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ninjatoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Near Saginaw,Michigan
Posts: 1,499
Liked 177 Times on 132 Posts
Likes Given: 44

Default Paperwork W/Background Checks..What's the point?

I never really thought about it before, but after dozens of times of being run on the NICS system either at a local level for registering my handguns, or on a federal level for buying any firearm at an ffl, what's the point of any of the paperwork you fill out? To me it's more or less like a big brother saying "I already know all the answers to the questions i'm asking you, but what do YOU feel about yourself before I check your test?" To me it seems like a cheap trick to try to trip up a person who is totally legal to own a firearm. it just makes no sense to me. Has anyone ever thought about it like me before?

__________________

S&W 915 9mm
Mossberg 500 Mariner 12ga
1945 Win 94
Ruger MKIII 22/45 4"
Savage MK II
Ruger SP101 .357
Kung-Fu Moves

ninjatoth is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 07-30-2014, 10:02 PM   #2
The Apocalypse Is Coming.....
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 28,735
Liked 21697 Times on 12308 Posts
Likes Given: 53672

Default

circumstances can change for a person from one gun purchase to the next. DWI, a domestic violence charge, a RO, or any other unqualifying item on the 4473 Form. nervous break-down requiring a mandated stay in a mental hospital, drug or alcohol abuse.

__________________
Axxe55 is offline  
3
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 10:14 PM   #3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ninjatoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Near Saginaw,Michigan
Posts: 1,499
Liked 177 Times on 132 Posts
Likes Given: 44

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxe55 View Post
circumstances can change for a person from one gun purchase to the next. DWI, a domestic violence charge, a RO, or any other unqualifying item on the 4473 Form. nervous break-down requiring a mandated stay in a mental hospital, drug or alcohol abuse.
That's true, but relying on the truth from the buyer with nothing in the system that can prove or disprove anything stated, does seem kind of like another pointless rule or law.
__________________

S&W 915 9mm
Mossberg 500 Mariner 12ga
1945 Win 94
Ruger MKIII 22/45 4"
Savage MK II
Ruger SP101 .357
Kung-Fu Moves

ninjatoth is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 10:20 PM   #4
Retired
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
danf_fl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LA (Lower Alabama),FL
Posts: 10,379
Liked 2955 Times on 1704 Posts
Likes Given: 1271

Default

To be able to charge one with falsifying government documents comes to mind.

__________________

Amendment II:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Life Member NRA
Life Member NAHC
Former President of the ECPT (Eifel Combat Pistol Team)

danf_fl is offline  
4
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 10:25 PM   #5
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
c3shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Third bunker on the right,Central Virginia
Posts: 16,897
Liked 9146 Times on 3949 Posts
Likes Given: 1426

Default

If you mean the form 4473, r3equired for any firearm purchase from a dealer- the dealer reviews the information prior to running the NICS check. IF the dealer realizes that an answer is disqualifying, they do not run the NICS check- they stop at that point, and advise the potential buyer that they are disqualified (or if you like, impaired) from being able to possess or buy a gun.

C&P from the ATF-

Q: Can a licensee transfer a firearm to an individual who answered “yes” to a prohibitive question in Block 11 of the ATF F 4473, even if the individual passes a NICS check?

A: No. If the prospective purchaser answers “yes” to any of the prohibitive questions, the licensee has reasonable cause to believe that the transferee is prohibited. Accordingly, the transfer of a firearm to such a person would be in violation of federal law. This is true even if the licensee received a “proceed” response from NICS. There is no reason for the licensee to contact NICS after a person indicates on the Form 4473 that he or she is prohibited from receiving firearms. The licensee should simply advise the prospective purchaser that the firearm may not be transferred. [ATF Newsletters 9/99 and 5/01]

__________________

What we have here is... failure- to communicate.

c3shooter is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 10:35 PM   #6
The Apocalypse Is Coming.....
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 28,735
Liked 21697 Times on 12308 Posts
Likes Given: 53672

Default

one example that comes to mind is now some states have made marijuana legal for medical and recreational uses.

there is a line on the 4473 Form that addresses this. so if a person partakes of marijuana in one of those states, and they decide to purchase a firearm, if they answer the question yes, then the FFL dealer can deny the transfer, as C3 mentioned, or as Dan said, if they answered no, then they are committing perjury and falsifying a federal document.

because though it's legal at the state level to partake of marijuana, the 4473 FFL form is a federal document which trumps state law as far as firearms are concerned.

__________________
Axxe55 is offline  
4
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 10:47 PM   #7
McCool@email.com
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MisterMcCool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Bumfugg, Egypt
Posts: 8,650
Liked 7441 Times on 4061 Posts
Likes Given: 15312

Default

To keep nuts and criminals from adding another firearm to their existing arsenals? Circumstances change, as Axxe said, but if a person already posses 999 firearms, separating them from one more accomplishes what? And why are dangerous nuts and criminals out of confinement anyway?

__________________

No offense and none taken (̿▀̿ ̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿)̄

MisterMcCool is offline  
Axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 10:54 PM   #8
The Apocalypse Is Coming.....
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 28,735
Liked 21697 Times on 12308 Posts
Likes Given: 53672

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMcCool View Post
To keep nuts and criminals from adding another firearm to their existing arsenals? Circumstances change, as Axxe said, but if a person already posses 999 firearms, separating them from one more accomplishes what? And why are dangerous nuts and criminals out of confinement anyway?
i have thought the same thing. personally, if a person isn't dangerous enough to keep behind prison walls, then they should be afforded the right to own firearms. if they are deemed too dangerous to be trusted with a firearm, then they are probably not trusted in reality of being outside of prison IMO.
__________________
Axxe55 is offline  
3
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 11:07 PM   #9
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,136
Liked 886 Times on 463 Posts
Likes Given: 466

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxe55 View Post
one example that comes to mind is now some states have made marijuana legal for medical and recreational uses.

there is a line on the 4473 Form that addresses this. so if a person partakes of marijuana in one of those states, and they decide to purchase a firearm, if they answer the question yes, then the FFL dealer can deny the transfer, as C3 mentioned, or as Dan said, if they answered no, then they are committing perjury and falsifying a federal document.

because though it's legal at the state level to partake of marijuana, the 4473 FFL form is a federal document which trumps state law as far as firearms are concerned.
Good point, but I will add or change one thing.

if they answer the question yes, then the FFL dealer can deny the transfer

That there is a "Must" not a "Can".
__________________
mseric is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 11:19 PM   #10
The Apocalypse Is Coming.....
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 28,735
Liked 21697 Times on 12308 Posts
Likes Given: 53672

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mseric View Post
Good point, but I will add or change one thing.

if they answer the question yes, then the FFL dealer can deny the transfer

That there is a "Must" not a "Can".
depends on how closely the FFL dealer looks over the form. my FFL dealer because i have bought so many guns from him, usually just glosses over the form nad calls it in. i could probably answer yes to all of them and not have it noticed!

but correct, he must deny the transfer per the regulations.
__________________
Axxe55 is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
What is in Background Checks Bill 25-5 Legal and Activism 4 05-12-2013 08:06 PM
The Case Against Background Checks Rentacop Legal and Activism 0 03-24-2013 12:37 AM
Background checks kirbinster Legal and Activism 2 02-23-2013 02:10 PM
Universal Background Checks? Tackleberry1 Legal and Activism 6 01-12-2013 12:09 AM
CCW bypasses background checks blucoondawg Legal and Activism 35 05-01-2012 02:08 AM



Newest Threads