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Old 05-11-2010, 01:28 AM   #11
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But Kimber you need to fight those fights where there is clearly a wrong by the government or the police. In this incident, as I mentioned above, there is a large amount of information missing for any rational person to make a valid, informed decision on what actually happened. You state "this is an asinine effort of the police to "control" our thoughts before it does become an issue that affects all United States Citizens." but that evaluation is made upon the assumption that all facts of the incident are present to be evaluated, and that is not the case. It just bothers me when people start lambasting the government or police on supposition and innuendo and not facts. I guess it’s the cop in me that people are innocent until the “facts” prove they are guilty. Again there are a lot of facts missing from this incident. I will be the first one to call foul on misuse of authority by the police when the facts support it. The fact that I live in El Paso, Texas I don't believe has anything to do with my opinion and I believe my opinion to be valid wether I live in Texas, Oregon or Washington.
Lambasting the police? Hmmm, did not the gentlemen in question get his door knocked on by a swat team? Lets see, what else? Was he not detained by the police, driven to a physc hospital and evaluated? Oh I see, because we do not have the lefts side, our mass media reporting on this and because it was written by a "gun group" it must be fallacy? Was there any implied threat? No, or they would not have released him. So what are you trying to say, that the story is all bull crap? Accept it, the police overstepped their authority, detained but did not arrest this gentleman and for what? Hmmm, think long and hard on that one . . . . He LEGALLY BOUGHT FIREARMS! And I might add, to complement his other legally bought & owned firearms. "I guess it’s the cop in me that people are innocent until the “facts” prove they are guilty." Innocent people who have committed no crime are not dragged from their home, their legally bought firearms confiscated, driven to a hospital and forced to undergo a MENTAL evaluation. If this is how you operate please stay the hell out of the Pacific Northwest we do not need any more thought police. I imagine you would defend the seattle cops for stomping on that "suspect" also. It is cops like these that give police departments a bad name.
Below is a link to an article all LEO's need to read
Open Letter to American Law Enforcement
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Old 05-11-2010, 02:35 PM   #12
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[QUOTE=orangello;283257]http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/lose-your-job-buy-gun-get-arrested-24581/ The "facts" acted upon by the state in the apprehension of this citizen were marginal at best, extremely marginal IMO. The state took practically paramilitary actions against a guy based on the say so of his forseeably biased boss/soon-to-be ex-boss;QUOTE]

See that's what I'm talking about. All I've read and looked at on this incident and one of the points I can't find is how the police were actually called in on this gentleman. Also I can't find how the police knew he had bought three guns in the days prior to this incident. This is what I mean by not having all the facts to make a decision on if the police overstepped their authority or not. Where did you find that the boss or ex-boss notified the police on the subject? There is a big difference in being held for a mental evaluation and being arrested. One is for the benefit of the subject and the other is for the benefit of society. Emotionally disturbed people don’t always wear pink tu-tu’s and leap around sprinkling pixie dust.

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Old 05-11-2010, 03:40 PM   #13
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Also I can't find how the police knew he had bought three guns in the days prior to this incident. scubie, keep digging for it's plain that others have found this info. All firearms purchased in the state of oregon go through an oregon state police data base for approval. There is an article out there admonishing the oregon state police for misuse of the data base in this case. Next, he was a union shop foreman for the oregon department of transportation, aka odot, which works closely with osp. From all the reading I've done on this my best "guesstimate" is that the info was leaked from one government bureau to another, nothing official mind you because there was NEVER a complaint form filled out against this gentleman with ANY law enforcement agency. He was a shop stewart, he was having conflicts with his immediate boss and was placed on administrative leave until the matter of their dispute was cleared up. PERIOD!
IMO this comes down to the idea that we try to control, by thought, opinion or concern, United States citizens, to keep them from harming themselves or others. We, the citizens of this country do not need our government or any of it's agencies telling us how to think. We especially must resist this intrusion, this cradle to grave mentality that our government is there to protect us from ourselves, that they know what is best for us and will not allow is to fall down and get a boo boo. If no threat was made, even though his supervisor might have felt intimidate, than no crime was committed! End of discussion!
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:09 PM   #14
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Scubie, if you look at the attached article in the origional thread about this it states that the Oregon DOT reported the employee to athorities, who then began to "monitor" the "suspect", it was during this period of monitoring that Mr. Pyles purchased his firearms. This just for clarification purposes, no implications intended.

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Old 05-11-2010, 06:27 PM   #15
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See that's what I'm talking about. All I've read and looked at on this incident and one of the points I can't find is how the police were actually called in on this gentleman. Also I can't find how the police knew he had bought three guns in the days prior to this incident. This is what I mean by not having all the facts to make a decision on if the police overstepped their authority or not. Where did you find that the boss or ex-boss notified the police on the subject? There is a big difference in being held for a mental evaluation and being arrested. One is for the benefit of the subject and the other is for the benefit of society.
The man recently had been placed on administrative leave from his job and was "very disgruntled," the news release said.
ODOT Communications Director Patrick Cooney said there were administrative, personnel matters involved that limited what the department could discuss.
However, the state agency had reported concerns about the man to law enforcement agencies, who started monitoring him, officials said.
"We had concerning information regarding a personnel issue and were watching the subject," Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters said.

from Police act swiftly after gun purchases | MailTribune.com It was easier to see in the article linked to the previous thread.

Regarding the difference between being "held" for a mental evaluation & being arrested: I realize there are people who the state feels may be a danger to themselves & others who may need to be strongly encouraged, maybe even forced, to seek psychological assistance, but i DON'T think having a disagreement with your boss or purchasing some legal firearms should be legally supportable justification for such an involuntary psyche evaluation. Had the guy dropped a deuce on his boss's desk & used it to write a death threat to his boss on the window while carrying a recently purchased handgun coated entirely in his own semen, that would necessitate an interview with a psychological professional, IMO.

I don't need a nanny named Uncle Sam. I don't need someone to tell me to wear a seatbelt. I don't need someone to tell me how many firearms i should purchase or not to bitch at my boss. I don't need the cops to stop by & rattle my doorknob at 3AM or to tuck me in at 11PM. I don't think this guy needed an encounter with the swatters to let him know that he doesn't really have any rights (4th amendment for example) unless the State wants him to have rights. I SERIOUSLY doubt this encounter will bring about a greater degree of cooperation with LEOs in this individual's future.

I hope he uses some of his well-deserved suit proceeds or settlement to buy a crapload of firearms & three craploads of ammunition & some exterior night vision cameras for his home to alert him to any future illegal assaults. In My Opinion, every supervising officer involved needs to be retrained, the ODOT supervisor who involved law enforcement in a personnel matter needs to be retrained or repositioned, and Mr. Pyles needs to be very well compensated for the State's virtual rape of his rights via a financial settlement and perhaps a permanent exemption from state taxes.
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Old 05-11-2010, 08:51 PM   #16
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The man recently had been placed on administrative leave from his job and was "very disgruntled," the news release said.
ODOT Communications Director Patrick Cooney said there were administrative, personnel matters involved that limited what the department could discuss.
However, the state agency had reported concerns about the man to law enforcement agencies, who started monitoring him, officials said.
"We had concerning information regarding a personnel issue and were watching the subject," Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters said.

from Police act swiftly after gun purchases | MailTribune.com It was easier to see in the article linked to the previous thread.

Regarding the difference between being "held" for a mental evaluation & being arrested: I realize there are people who the state feels may be a danger to themselves & others who may need to be strongly encouraged, maybe even forced, to seek psychological assistance, but i DON'T think having a disagreement with your boss or purchasing some legal firearms should be legally supportable justification for such an involuntary psyche evaluation. Had the guy dropped a deuce on his boss's desk & used it to write a death threat to his boss on the window while carrying a recently purchased handgun coated entirely in his own semen, that would necessitate an interview with a psychological professional, IMO.

I don't need a nanny named Uncle Sam. I don't need someone to tell me to wear a seatbelt. I don't need someone to tell me how many firearms i should purchase or not to bitch at my boss. I don't need the cops to stop by & rattle my doorknob at 3AM or to tuck me in at 11PM. I don't think this guy needed an encounter with the swatters to let him know that he doesn't really have any rights (4th amendment for example) unless the State wants him to have rights. I SERIOUSLY doubt this encounter will bring about a greater degree of cooperation with LEOs in this individual's future.

I hope he uses some of his well-deserved suit proceeds or settlement to buy a crapload of firearms & three craploads of ammunition & some exterior night vision cameras for his home to alert him to any future illegal assaults. In My Opinion, every supervising officer involved needs to be retrained, the ODOT supervisor who involved law enforcement in a personnel matter needs to be retrained or repositioned, and Mr. Pyles needs to be very well compensated for the State's virtual rape of his rights via a financial settlement and perhaps a permanent exemption from state taxes.
Great post.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:28 PM   #17
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Great post.
You know what they say about opinions. That was mine. I can't say that other opinions are absolutely wrong, but i may need some convincing or some tasty tasty Koolaid.

Thanks for the vote of sanity.
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:35 PM   #18
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Red face Apology

Gentlemen, if I've stepped on any ones toes here I'd like to apologize. Some times I get a wee bit too aggressive with my opinion.

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Old 05-13-2010, 10:59 PM   #19
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Great post.
+1.

This situation is yet another example of what happens when we let government step past its Constitutionally proscribed lawful limitations and define its own role in our lives.
And yet another reason why having to beg government for permission to excersize our God-given inalienable right to arms via a background check for every purchase is really not a good thing......because then they know who has the guns,and thats not what the founders had in mind when they wrote the Second Amendment.
If tyrants know who has guns,it makes their evil just that much easier to accomplish.

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson

But....But....Dont you know?
The 'background checks' keep guns out of the hands of criminals?

Yeah,right.
And if you believe that,I have some nice beach front property on the Moon you might be interested in.

But hey,nanny is here to 'help',with their para-military raid teams,nanny knows best;they 'need to know' and 'need to control' who has guns,and if they think you need their 'help'-you'll accept that 'help'-or die.
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Old 05-13-2010, 11:21 PM   #20
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Gentlemen, if I've stepped on any ones toes here I'd like to apologize. Some times I get a wee bit too aggressive with my opinion.
We all get emotionally involved in certain topics. There are several veteran LE members who can help put some of these situations into perspective (if you are willing to gain perspective).
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