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Old 02-14-2013, 02:40 PM   #41
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If you have a problem with me.. report me to the mods and they'll determine if I stay or go.
You're not there yet, when they start deleting posts and locking threads down then you'll know the nerve has been struck.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:52 PM   #42
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We don't have to WIN an argument against a gun grabber. Our battle is not with them, or the media. It is with gun grabbing politicians.
Yeah, except I don't care about engaging the gun grabbers. I'm talking about fighting the misinformation campaign and making sure we don't lose the people who are on the fence or people who may not be gun owners but so far support gun ownership.

When I talk about "The Enemy", I am talking about gun grabbers in all their forms. They are a lost cause.

My concern is that their emotional appeals work. I believe their is an underlying current of support for the 2nd Amendment, but there is always a part of the population that is easily swayed. I don't think we just have to give up on those people. We actually need them. We need to turn them into believers. We don't need to turn them into NRA members or gun owners. I'm perfectly happy just to be in their heads as the good guys.

WNGMSTR is correct, we can't compete dollar for dollar. Most of what will be done is going to be done "guerilla style". That doesn't mean we have to give up the PR war altogether. In most ways, I think the enemy expects us not to engage them directly. I think we can and I think we can bloody their nose.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:05 PM   #43
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My concern is that their emotional appeals work. I believe their is an underlying current of support for the 2nd Amendment, but there is always a part of the population that is easily swayed.
Obama ripped off the right arm of the Republicans and beat them over their own head in the SOTU address. Swayed the public in a big way.

Not really sure I heard a Republican response. Only capitulation that he will get his vote on the proposed measures. Whether they will give an up or down is certainly important but they gave him the platform to command his will. A loss.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:34 PM   #44
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Obama ripped off the right arm of the Republicans and beat them over their own head in the SOTU address. Swayed the public in a big way.

Not really sure I heard a Republican response. Only capitulation that he will get his vote on the proposed measures. Whether they will give an up or down is certainly important but they gave him the platform to command his will. A loss.
The only bill that has a snowballs chance of passing is universal background checks. It is hard to convince senators that the fourth amendment would have to be trampled to enforce the law. Even liberals (ACLU) are saying the law can not be enforced without trampling our rights. They must have their head in the sand when Joe Biden said the BATF does not have the manpower to investigate fraudulent form 4473 cases or gun shops that lose way to much invntory now.

I am going to meet with a member of Senator Burr's staff to get ideas to write effective letters. Politicians know they are infringing on the second but they need to hear common sense ideas, instead of shall not be infringed 1000 times a day. Democrats are not even trying to field calls from their constituents. Once the Democrats see shall not be infringed in a letter they add your address to their database and delete your letter.

A member of Kay Hagan's staff told me to call Feinstein's staff for an explanation of the bill. He even told me to drop his name when I called the Fienstein camp.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:54 PM   #45
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Obama ripped off the right arm of the Republicans and beat them over their own head in the SOTU address. Swayed the public in a big way.
Maybe in your view, not mine. He did exactly what everybody expected him to do. Which means he neither gained nor lost support. I don't know how you think he came off with any kind of 'victory' unless you happened to believe the usual media democrat fawning. I mean, good gawd, the focus was on Rubio drinking a glass of water? Idiots!

The Congress is surely pleasantly pleased that states have taken the initiative on this latest gun-control mess - it gets them off the hook IMHO. If you happen to live in a state like NY, you are screwed. Which sucks, because upstate NY is a very beautiful part of this country....not like the toilet down the Hudson a ways.
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:08 PM   #46
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According to the BING focus groups, gun control was the worst received part of the whole speech. Dems were indifferent and Republicans AND Independents were into full on dislike territory.

Gun control remains a loser issue, which is why this battle is so very winnable. That is also why I believe the current media tactic of beating us over the head persists. I really do see this as a war of attrition now.

Gun grabbers see this as their last gasp to enact their changes and get momentum on their side. That is why they are doubling down on their agenda. That is also why we must not compromise, because we would be undoing a lot of gains over the past decade.

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Old 02-14-2013, 04:16 PM   #47
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I agree that infighting hurts us. I also agree that some of us are done with compromising. (like myself) We have compromised ourselves into the abominable situation we are in today. So I say no more compromise.

At some point, we must stand up and stop that assault. Our basic liberties are under assault from the statists of both parties. Not just gun rights, but freedom of speech, freedom of religion, illegal search and seizure, taxation without representation and on and on. 2A is the linchpin of our freedom and it was designed to prevent the loss of all our other liberties.

If there's a way to reach out to people that are on the fence then we should try to do so. If there's a better way to reach out to them, great. Let's try it.

But I'm done engaging anti 2A people in argument. They will not be swayed.

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Old 02-14-2013, 04:18 PM   #48
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Maybe in your view, not mine.
These are not the views I'm worried about. He made them look weak and irrelevant all the while promoting security from the state.

We know they will not get the whole banana at the fed level but they will get something. Another loss. Then he will implement his executive actions. Another loss.

I agree the key battles are in the states, and by design IMO.
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:30 PM   #49
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I agree we need a big tent and it must be a single issue tent. I am the typical NRA supporting white, Protestant, Conservative male but...

I don't give a darn if the gun owner to my right is Grizzly Adams and the gun owner to my left is a gay San Fran liberal, sipping latte in a pair of assess leather chaps!

There was ALOT of uproar here at FTF when the NRA ran a center fold endorsement of Senate Majority Leader Reed right before the 2010 mid term elections. Many were angry with the NRA for supporting Obamas rubber stamp Senator...BUT...

...despite BO at the bully pulpit, a rabidly anti liberty press, and two of the worst mass shootings in the Nations History... Reed has brought NOTHING to the table in the Senate.

Their are Democratic leaning gun owners who will break with their party over guns and we must be inclusive toward them.

I also agree that NO COMPROMISE is the path to follow. Including lefty
Gun owners does not mean we accept capitulation... It simply means we get the opportunity to speak with them about things like the folly of "universal BTC's".

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If anyone has been paying attention to TTAG (The Truth About Guns) "I Am a Gun Owner" series you'll see that gun ownership is not a red vs. blue issue.

The enemy really are Democratic POLITICIANS and they're vocal anti-gun supporters. Not all Dems and Libs are anti-gun. For that matter, be aware that there are Republicans who are anti-gun.

A serious mistake of gun culture is trying to equate being pro-gun as being on board with a whole host of issues that have NOTHING to do with gun ownership. Gun ownership needs to be "big tent". Gun rights needs to be single issue. You start getting into abortion, gay marriage, etc. etc. and the whole thing falls apart. I truly do see gun ownership as an issue that stands on its own.

If we make this an internal "us vs. them" issue, the anti-gunners will drive that wedge with everything they've got.
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Old 02-14-2013, 05:03 PM   #50
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You're not there yet, when they start deleting posts and locking threads down then you'll know the nerve has been struck.
But I am following and watching this thread........
And have deleted a couple posts.
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